Seems like an opportunity for WTC to come back to Penticton and have Ironmans in Whistler and Penticton.

  

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I was very surprise to see this in the newspaper but with 377 000$ in lost last year, i m sure the city dosnt want to lose anymore money. I dont know if this mean that the door is open for WTC to comeback in penticton but i simply wish one thing.... that he get back a race with 2700 participant, hotel fully book, training camp every weekend from may till august and make penticton a triathlon town again.

it gets old quickly to ride alone around the course chasing Jeff symonds that is riding a little too fast....

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Jonathan Caron / Professional Coach / ironman champions / age group world champions
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Could you imagine the hate for that move? I think Challenge should just send Vigo up there because he knows how to run a profit!

Well... the WTC did an outstanding job of working to cripple the race in year 1.

Anyone know the losses or number due to refund?

Maurice

Sad to see how things really didn't pan out the way the city wanted it to. I was in Penticton around the time that the announcement was made to go to Challenge and some people welcomed it, and some people thought it was a bad idea but had a wait and see attitude.

It seems to me that the town council really underestimated how important the Ironman brand was and is to most triathletes. From some of the people I know who were in on the conversation, I believe that the WTC really made an effort to try and keep the race in Penticton for 2013 but the town council had already made up its mind about what to do with the race.

To respond to one of the other posters, having raced in Penticton and Whistler, they're both great races, and two very different courses. I wouldn't say one is better than the other, but now that the race is in Whistler, I personally don't see any huge driver to send it back to Penticton any time soon. Nor does it seem that the door is open for it to.

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Yes, agree with all that except that Whistler still isn't full whereas Penticton used to fill quickly. Maybe there are other factors at play, but I really hope for a comeback for Penticton as it's an iconic race and a beautiful and friendly City.

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This is in no way gloating because a) I don't have a dog in this fight and b) I only wish success and competition for the various race orgs but...

There's a big "I told you so" from us pragmatists. Penticton, Challenge and anti-WTC homers looked at this through some extremely thick rose colored glasses from the get go. Myself and many others felt this was the beginning of the end for a iron distance race in Penticton, at least one that draws any kind of crowd. Do not underestimate the power of the Ironman brand {said in Darth Vader voice}. Ironman is an anomaly in the triathlon race world right now. Nobody else can make a buck besides WTC.

If I was an athlete already registered for this race I'd be making alternative plans ASAP. The mayor spins it positively but it's not hard to read between the lines and come away with the conclusion the race is all but dead unless a white knight steps forward.

If I was WTC I'd bail them out, turn it into a 70.3 and do one of those package deals with IM Whistler going forward where you get a 70.3 and 140.6 for a discounted price. Or they can just give Penticton the finger and move on.

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I have done Penticton 6 times. When my wife got wind of an Ironman in Whistler (and knowing that I WILL want to do an Ironman) and given that she's usually at a summer Ironman that I do, she strongly suggested Whistler for the family benefits too. Really tough for Penticton to compete against that. I did my first Ironman in 1991 in Penticton so I have a sentimental attachment to the place, but was quite happy to sign up for Whistler. Also I agree that the Ironman brand is important to most athletes in North America. Almost no one in North America knows what Challenge. The words Challenge Penticton to the average person does not even suggest there is a triathlon in Penticton...that challenge in Penticton must be a Tough Mudder or obstacle race as far as they are concerned. Bad branding in North America as the world triathlon is not even included and Challenge has limited brand awareness outside of the fairly hard core athlete.

I feel the two obstacles are the non Ironman branding and Penticton as a vacation destination vs Whistler. Those are two tough obstacles to overcome with the general population (and we're not just talking the general triathlete, but the general family).

Dev

i agree with mostly what you say but one thing

i m sure there is family like your....but from what we here in canada and usa....people come to penticton in the summer because it s heaven on earth...there is so much fun to do. Not many would pick whistler over penticton in the summer. it s just not the reality here in BC. I had a great time in Whistler last year...but it just isnt a summer location the way penticton his.

They could easily put 2 ironman in bc 1 month apart. The day WTC put a ironman back in penticton, it will sell out again right away at 2700 people.

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Jonathan Caron / Professional Coach / ironman champions / age group world champions
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The town got shortsighted. Figured people would still flock to their town even without IM. Yeah not so much guys. Such a shame as there was really no reason for this to happen.

They backed the wrong horse and took, what I considered to be, a very stupid gamble. They now have to pay for that gamble. I thought it would actually take a few years before the race died so the potential "one and done" is surprising.

Penticton just can't compete with Whistler. It's not a fair fight.

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Whenever I hear of someone claiming to make a loss, I immediately want to see the books.

For a race like Challenge Penticton, there are many stakeholders, all with money spent and income made.

I'm not sure about this year, but in the past, IMNZ managed to shake down the town of Taupo, to have the race there. The town would provide all sorts of people and vehicles (town workers, not the local volunteers) to help put on the race. The town would wave road closure fees or whatever, to get the race to happen in their town. That costs the town money in some form. Does it cost them say to have a town worker work for a couple of days on the race rather than moving the grass on the side of the highway? Accounting wise, that gets put in the cost column, certainly not the income side. Waiving road closure fees ($10-20k?) is also a cost/loss. All these types of costs could add up to a $377k loss......on paper.

The only reason a town would incur any costs would be because of the benefits/income that come from it. The town council money is really 'seed money' that results in many times that amount of money, being spent in the town. Hotels, restaurants etc, all get income from the people who enter the race and their supporters. That money goes around and around in the town, for weeks or months afterwards.

While it may have cost Penticton council $377K to have the race come to town, the town of Penticton and surrounding areas, got WAY more than that in income, and likely profit as well.

While Penticton may have been used to larger competitor fields with WTC running the show, and resulting lower income for the community, but I suspect that even if there was a real $377k loss for the city, the net result was a benefit for the community. I don't think Challenge will get back to IMC entrants in the next few years (what with Whistler just down the road, at best, both races will suffer), I suspect that after doing Challenge Wanaka a couple of times, and knowing Felix, the race will be awesome, and it will grow. How fast it will grow, I can't say, but Challenge puts on great events and they are expanding and increasing entrant numbers. Penticton needs to chill and stay the course. If Challenge leaves, they will have no $377k loss, but no $5million income either. The streets will roll up and close for the winter, several weeks sooner than if an iron distance race is in town at the end of summer. IF the town closes up shop, at least a few hotels, motels or restaurants will end up closing their doors, and that is a pretty slippery slope.

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TriDork

"Happiness is a myth. All you can hope for is to get laid once in a while, drunk once in a while and to eat chocolate every day"

Didn't the town own the race and license it to Challenge? So isn't it possible they spent $X while expecting registration to be closer to the old race? Registration was down massively from 2012. Something like 2400 to 750.
So yeah I see where you are coming, maybe it really isn't a loss, though they are claiming the new owner needs to pick up the debt here, but just maybe it is a real loss.

Yeah, that's my point, we don't know if the loss is real or not.

I work in the building industry. I'm constantly told projects make a loss. They never do. Often that loss is a loss of dreamed profit. They were hoping for 20% profit but only made 10%. On a million dollar build cost, they'd make $100k profit not $200k so they call that a $100k loss.

Penticton council may be making similar claims, but I doubt we will ever hear how that $377k loss was calculated.

I'm not losing any sleep over it that is for sure.

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TriDork

"Happiness is a myth. All you can hope for is to get laid once in a while, drunk once in a while and to eat chocolate every day"

I always wanted to do IronMan Canada when it was in Penticton. If WTC got it again I would be waiting at my computer with credit card in hand to register. I have no interest in Challenge Penticton. I'd bet good money there are others like me.

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I've done IM Canada at Penticton twice, and Whistler once- I really like Penticton and the old course, but my wife doesn't race and she refused to go to Penticton again but she is hoping we could go to Whistler again this year. In order to race at Penticton the first time I had the fly up the year before to stand in the day after the race- there are just so many races now- CDA, Whistler and Tahoe aren't full yet.
I also think that many of the people who are actually signing for Ironman distance races now don't have a special attachment to Penticton the way it was even 10 years ago

Didn't WTC give a big FU to the town and have Whistler the same day? I don't "hate" WTC, but their customer service is seriously lacking. Wonder if CHALLENGE's expansion to NA is being watched closely by WTC. Wonder if that's why WTC started the transfer program. It's a start, but not as good as the 90% refund CHALLENGE offers. competition should make both better. I'm rooting for CHALLENGE to succeed.

What difference does it make? You are racing the same course with different signage. Penticton is a legendary course whether Challenge, WTC, or any other competent race company puts the race on.

The main difference is I do not want to do an IM with just 700 people in it. If i wanted to do that i could do HITS in my backyard. 2nd difference is no Kona slots.

IM Canada just had a great history and buzz in Penticton. Both of those are gone now that it is Challenge.

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Makes absolutely no sense that the city would be looking for a new operator for the race. They made a bad decision outing WTC and are no doubt regretting it but they need to stand by Challenge to help promote the race and for the town's sake hopefully grow the race back to it's former numbers. Seems to me Penticton city council needs to put more thought into these knee jerk decisions. Do they really think another organizer is going to do a better job??? The real attraction was the IM brand and the possibility to KQ. Outing Challenge and bringing in another organizer only dilutes the race more and adds confusion and doubt for potential entrants. I raced Challenge Penticton last year and thought they did a great job, will be racing Whistler this year as I'm trying to KQ.

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This article from last month referred to Challenge Penticton as a "franchise": http://www.pentictonherald.ca/...-welcome-a-hand.html

Are all the Challenge NA races franchises of Challenge? Frankly I can't see WTC buying a Challenge franchise if that's what they mayor is selling.

How so? Prior to 2013, there was one IM in Western Canada. When WTC left Penticon, they set up shop just down the road. The market is only so big and it may not be able to sustain two IM races in Western Canada. The problem for Penticon is they only have one event per year and they have to make money on it. WTC can afford to lose money on Whistler until they drive Penticon out of business. If you say Penticon should have anticipated this, they you are basically saying they should just allow themselves to be held hostage by WTC.

Basically the low numbers in Penticon probably have more to do with the race in Whistler than anything else, which they didn't necessarily anticipate. And let's be honest, if you are one of those people who do an IM every year and then there was a different choice right where you had been going, I think a lot of people will check it out and it has nothing to do with whether Challenge Penticon was a good race.