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Centre pull brake on a p4/s5?
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Does anyone have any data on a centre pull brake, like a tririg or other on a p4/s5 specifically?

I ask because I chatted to an aero expert who said that the key difference between the p3 and p4 was the headtube, they spent tonnes of time getting it right, and that actually a centre pull brake could be a bad idea because it would disrupt the airflow onto the headtube and along the frame.

He said that the tririg works well on the old and new p3 but not on the s5 and p4. Or at least it wasn't the kind of saving that Ero found on the old p3 of 6w.

Any thoughts on this? It sounds logical.

He said if anything he would try and run a brake cable as out to the side as possible, to keep the headtube clear.

If it seems like it might be true I may stick with the far better braking of the DA, as the tririg is too pricey and my other alternative, the campag centre pull is horrible at braking!
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Re: Centre pull brake on a p4/s5? [TriByran] [ In reply to ]
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that aero expert was incorrect on all fronts.
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Re: Centre pull brake on a p4/s5? [jkhayc] [ In reply to ]
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Can you give some info/data on this?
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Re: Centre pull brake on a p4/s5? [TriByran] [ In reply to ]
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I'm not sure that your aero expert isn't misnomered.

One thing to consider, a centre pull brake doesn't necessarily need the cable housing ran down to the caliper, it could just be the inner cable. How much damage do you think the cable does in the image below?


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Re: Centre pull brake on a p4/s5? [TriByran] [ In reply to ]
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TriByran wrote:

He said if anything he would try and run a brake cable as out to the side as possible, to keep the headtube clear.

So have the brake cable dangling off to the side in the wind? Got it.

That obviously doesn't make any sense. While it may be true that the flow around the head tube with the cable sitting in front of it may be less ideal than without, I refuse to believe that that difference is bigger than having a clean head tube plus a cable full in the wind.

But then again, I don't have windtunnel nor CFD data.

Citizen of the world, former drunkard. Resident Traumatic Brain Injury advocate.
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Re: Centre pull brake on a p4/s5? [knighty76] [ In reply to ]
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Is that a p4 or s5?
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Re: Centre pull brake on a p4/s5? [TriByran] [ In reply to ]
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Neither, it is a P3C just to illustrate the point about cable inner vs outer exposed routing.
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Re: Centre pull brake on a p4/s5? [knighty76] [ In reply to ]
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That’s the point though.
This doesn’t apply to the p3

The cable might not seem much. But there is more to all this than frontal area.

What if the cable trips the flow?

The t4 was designed around having no brake.
The p4 carries the same headtube. Which is slightly different from the p3

It might seem silly to have to the cable in the wind. But what if THAT wind, which is about to hit the knee doesn’t matter?
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Re: Centre pull brake on a p4/s5? [TriByran] [ In reply to ]
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I wasn't drawing any conclusions, I'll leave that to your expert. Just pointing out that the centre pull routing doesn't have to be outer cable housing.

But I bet you a bunch of money that a Tririg Omega with inner cable routed down from the stem will be faster on a P4, a S5 or even a space shuttle, than a cable housing mounted to the side of the thing.
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Re: Centre pull brake on a p4/s5? [TriByran] [ In reply to ]
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There is something to this logic, one of the pros shared some wind tunnel test where they left the brake cable out in the wind and it was actually 4w (I think) faster then if they completely removed the cable. It was on the QR bike, I’ll try to find the atheletes blog post about the test. I realize it’s a different bike, but it might not be as crazy as it sounds.
Last edited by: EnderWiggan: Jul 18, 18 7:15
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Re: Centre pull brake on a p4/s5? [TriByran] [ In reply to ]
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Based on what I learned building a small wind tunnel and using it to test brakes, I would run full housing (not bare cable) directly in front of the head tube to an aero brake (e.g., TriRig). That is true regardless of the bike in question (assuming, of course, it doesn't use a proprietary brake).

As for the velodrome testing of the TriRig, I don't think that the data pass the smell test.
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Re: Centre pull brake on a p4/s5? [Andrew Coggan] [ In reply to ]
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I tested the Vision TriMax aero caliper (the brake that comes standard on the Felt IA10) vs the TriRig on my Scott Plasma 3 at A2WT.

The difference was at most 1w difference in favor of the TriRig at 0, -5, -7.5, -10 yaws

Brian Stover USAT LII
Accelerate3 Coaching
Insta

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Re: Centre pull brake on a p4/s5? [Andrew Coggan] [ In reply to ]
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6w did seem a little ambitious!
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Re: Centre pull brake on a p4/s5? [Andrew Coggan] [ In reply to ]
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Andrew Coggan wrote:
As for the velodrome testing of the TriRig, I don't think that the data pass the smell test.

+1
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Re: Centre pull brake on a p4/s5? [TriByran] [ In reply to ]
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TriByran wrote:
That’s the point though.
This doesn’t apply to the p3

The P3C and the P4 headtube area are extremely similar. Both are quite different than the NP2/3/5. Coggan has also stated before (or maybe it was Tom A) that his theory was that the housing played a small roll in fairing the headtube area when placed correctly (i.e. the center).
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Re: Centre pull brake on a p4/s5? [jkhayc] [ In reply to ]
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jkhayc wrote:
Coggan has also stated before (or maybe it was Tom A) that his theory was that the housing played a small roll in fairing the headtube area when placed correctly (i.e. the center).

Wonder if Alligator iLinks or JagWire segmented housing would be faster? Ya know, like dimpled or trip layer clothing. (Half pink)

Alex Arman

Strava
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Re: Centre pull brake on a p4/s5? [jkhayc] [ In reply to ]
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Similar, but not the same.
Just seen the data, very very interesting.

P3C - TriRig was 2w faster than dura ace brake
P4 it was around 1w slower. A different centre pull, I don’t know which was 3w slower.

I may test this next week
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