Dunno the reason, but you've got my nomination if you want the job Dev.

I don't want any position at Trican, (at least not for the next decade till my son goes to university). I'm actually too involved right now in XC ski organization and coaching.

I just feel there is a lack of age group focus and direction at the top end of Triathlon Canada and would like to see some more focus there. The reality is that age groupers fuel the sport and are a source of future champions.

For example, many top CDN pros have come from the age group ranks. I can list off Peter Reid, Lisa Bentley, Lori Bowden, Dave Harju, Tom Evans and Garret McFayden as just a few. It seems there is no focus to develop this source of future Champions. In the USA, in 1994, Tim deBoom was ITU Age group World Champ at a 20-24 ! Granted, these examples are Ironman focused, but it make a point.



Dev

While I have limited (read: no) insight or involvement with the Tri Canada folks, this doesn't surprise me in the least. Canadian athletic organizations are developing a scary trend of organizational management with no input from the majority of athletes they supposedly represent. Swimming Canada seems to be an excellent recent example of this.

That being said, their should at least be some sort of AG Ombudsman, who has their pulse on what's going with athlete's across the country. While we all likely rely more on the the provincial orgs (I care a lot more what OAT thinks, for example), I really see them operating independently of the federal org.

It's interesting that while we rely on a decentralized organization (my races are OAT sanctioned, not Tri Canada sanctioned), the US relies on a more centralized approach (USAT sanctioned).

This is how the president opened the 2002 AGM:

" Since we met in Drummondville at the 2001 Annual General Meeting, our organization has experienced another successful year of high performance excellence, combined with key strategic accomplishments. Our full time membership continues to grow having exceeded 6,400 and with three (3) provinces now having over 1,000 members each. Since 1999 the membership of Triathlon Canada has increased by over 1,600 full time members or about 33%. This is a good indication of the continuing growth in our sport across Canada."

There is no president's report to open the 2003 or 2004 AGM. In fact there is no call for any 2004 AGM or minutes if that event did occur.

Dev,

Yes our current stars have tended to come from the ranks of age-group athletes - that's because the sport of triathlon is less than 20 years old.

However, the future stars of the triathlon will be, and are starting to be developed in a more traditional manner - that is coming from the junior ranks and then on up into the senior ranks. It's like that in most other sports and in most other sports, that's where the developmental reasources are focussed - not on age-group or recreational athletes at all really. It's the same with Athletics Canada, or the CCA( cycling) or the CCC( xc skiing). There are some reassources, alocated to the overall development of the sport( read: age-group and recreational) but the biggest part of these organizations budgets goes to funding and promotion of the national teams and the development of junior talent.

Fleck

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Steve Fleck @stevefleck | Blog

Fleck, I am not saying that Age Group programs need money, just some focus. You are correct that perhaps future stars will come out of junior programs. My point is that this not the only source, and to disregard the huge age group pool as a source of future performers is very short sighted.

In any case when you talk to thousands of age groupers and ask them what triathlon canada does for them, the answer is NOTHING. Granted, the provincial federations should be doing something, but there needs to be direction from the top. If Triathlon Canada cares about women, visible minorities, aboriginals etc etc (at least according to their web site), they should be caring about age groupers.

Dev,

As another posted, it's more about what the provencial organizations are doing for you. They are the ones that are sanctioning the events, providing the insurance etc . . the real tangible things that everyone can relate to.

TriCan is, from what I can tell, acting like most other National Governing bodies - focusing on the national team and the development of talent that will be on that team sometime in the future. With all due respect, it is an extremely rare occurance in any sport for someone to come along in their 20's or 30's and develop into a national level athlete and then go on to international level of competition. So I am not sure what value their is, in putting reasources into this.

Fleck

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Steve Fleck @stevefleck | Blog

Yes, Peter Reid, Lisa Bentley, Lori Bowden, Dave Harju, Tom Evans and Garret McFayden are all rare athletes, but all came out of the age group ranks. Show me some champions that came out of junior aside from Whitfield. The rest have not won too much compared to the above group. What I am getting at is that triathletes tend to mature a bit older, than in many sports, and it might be better to let some of these folks go from junior to age group to pro at their own "self selected pace" than to burn them out as 21 year old pros once they leave junior.

Anyway, the above point is not the focus. It is tangential to the discussion. You just can't expect the provincial federations to do much for the age group masses unless there is someone at the top that also wears that hat. Ever been in a company with no VP or Marketing or No VP of Sales or No CTO. Guess what, that area of the company never really gets any proper focus.

Steve, just cause other federations run a certain way does not mean ours has to. Our sport is different. In our sport, athletes race on the same course as the pros on the same day (ITU LC, Hawaii) or at least on the same weekend (ITU SC). Very few sports have the same dynamic. Pros share their race courses with back of pack/ mid pack folks. The sport is built on age group participation.

I have to agree with Steve here, I am a director on Tri B.C. in charge of Elite athletes, etc... Anyway I am at every meeting and what we see as our number one goal is the junior athlete. The majority of our fundraising goes into the junior athlete to develop future champions. The reason you have not seen this yet (junior rise to champion) is like Fleck said, we are too young a sport in Canada. With increase in exposure and prize money this will change............also the fact that hockey is number one affects this. Look at Australia...................most of those athletes arose from the junior ranks because their club system and AIS (australian insitute of sport) have been a huge part of their growth.

Also tri b.c. addresses the age group athlete as much as possible, even though maybe there is more room , but honestly the junior athlete is our interest if we want our sport to grow.

TriCan deals with national issues such as high performance, coaching education, liasons with organisations such as Sport Canada, COC, etc. Quite a lot of energy does go into age group issues such as orgransiation and administration of national teams going to worlds, kids of steel, and bids and technical org of national championships / qualifying for worlds.
The Provinces are responsible for more of the day to day age group issues such as sanctioning, officiating, etc. Much like Fed/Prov governments I suppose. My experience with provincial associations is that they spend the majority of the time dealing with age group issues, while the national federation is more balanced.

Hope that helps,

Joel

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JoelFilliol.com - check out the Real Coaching Podcast

Dev,

According to their policy, the athlete representative on the Board is responsible for all athletes including Age Groupers.

See Here:
http://www.triathloncanada.com/en/federation/policies/Triathlon%20Canada%20Policy%20on%20Athlete%20Centredness.pdf

Also, this states only two main focus points for age group athletes: 1. The National Team Program and 2. The Annual Awards.

Considering the Provincial Associations are responsible for club development and race sanctioning, I don't see what else there is that the National Federation should be focusing on. What did you have in mind by "focus on age groupers"?

Dan

Further to my last post, I just found another policy which seems to contradict the first policy:

http://www.triathloncanada.com/notice_attachments/athlete_representative__policy.doc.pdf

Here, it only states the Athlete Representative as serving the needs of elite athletes whereas the first policy indicated all athlete groups.

Looks like there are some conflicting policies here.

Dan

Triathlon Canada is the personal fiefdom of the President. It is a completely political organization.

While provincial dues fund the body, the decisions that are made are not democratic at all and the President's will is what carries the day.

If you try to invoke Sports Canada's assistance you will find they are not going to help - they appear to blindly follow what the President says.

If you try to organize a group to have input from age groupers, you will likely be personally attacked very publicly - keep an eye on the "news" part of the tri canada forum for pointed attacks directly at you.

The stories regarding the hoops that Athletes with a Disability were put through to meet the Presiden't personal criteria are nauseating.

As with many Sports organizations, the people in charge are out of touch with the sport and they are in it for "power" - of course, one must question why they would want "power" if they're not in the sport.

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Tri Hard !

Folks. My understanding is that $3 our of each OAT member's fee goes to Triathlon Canada. This is $3 out of the pockets of folks that are 99% age groupers. By that I mean people 20 - 75 years old, not KOS, not Junior, not elite.

The age group national team is only ~150 people per year. There are ~7000 members across Canada. How are the rest being served by Tri Can. Part of Triathlon Canada's funding is based on national membership base.

The main point, is that triathlon Canada is out of touch with those that fuel the sport. There has to be a balance between focus on high performance and growing the sport to keep age groupers in the sport. I do agree that the provincial federations are doing lots of stuff, but there is no unifying direction from the top.

Even if the president runs the board as his own fiefdom, the only way to make people aware is raise issues and push them through. Many of you are the high performance end of the sport are out of touch with your rank and file age grouper. the guy doing Olympic tri in 2:45 or training for a first Ironman attempt in 15 hours is asking what Triathlon Canada does for them. Right now, they see nothing. When they also see that NO ONE on the board represents the voice of the age grouper, you can see how cycnical people become.

If you want to see a better example, look at USAT. They seem to do a lot more for the rank and file member.

This is where you guys are missing the boat. The sport is not growing through juniors. It is growing through middle age women joining the sport. That's women in the 30-50 year old range. They are growing more year on year. Second is men in 30-50. Look at where the bulk of racers are. Not junior my friend !!!

Dev,

I think he was refering to high performance development as "growth". Yes, it's the 30-50 men and women who are driving the numbers but what is it that you think TriCan should be doing that isn't already done by the provincial federations? I understand you're asking for a voice but for what reason? As an age-grouper, I'm satisified with how things are being run, especially in light of the cost - I hardly expect a lot for $3 a year (almost the same amount I spend daily at Tim Horton's).

OAT does a fantastic job here in Ontario, wouldn't TriCan just be duplicating their efforts? We (age groupers) have many, many great, affordable events in Ontario to choose from. What else is there to ask for?

Dan

Dev,

What do you think TriCan should be doing for AGers that it's not?

Joel disclaimer - I'm a new board member.

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JoelFilliol.com - check out the Real Coaching Podcast

Joel,

How about the following simple things for starters that are fairly low hanging fruit:

National Ranking Program, similar to USAT

National Series with a real national championships that you would have to qualify for. Right now nationals is a bit of a joke. Let's build some prestige into the thing. You could still have a citizen's wave, but let's make it a real accomplishment to get into Nationals in the first place

Learn to race program for newbies, standard across all provinces/communities

A database of coaches with qualifications so that you could go to the website and pick one in your region

A "HOW TO" section, which covers the basics of triathlon and sample training plans for sprint, olympic tri, half Ironman and Ironman

A section on nutrition

A pdf newletter sent to members across Canada, telling us what is going at the top (for example at the Pacific training centre)

Series of articles on Triathlon Canada website from National Team coaches etc with coaching tips and training techniques

A defined path/track for older athletes to go from citizen racer, to elite age grouper to pro. This is especially important in Long Distance racing , where lots of top guys only mature >30 years of age.

Real teams going to ITU World's with cutoff times etc, not just anyone who shows up.

A bit more focus on all fronts on Long Distance racing where many age groupers seem to be focusing these days. Not just claiming "Tom Evans" wins Ironman Florida or "Dave Harju" wins Ironman Wisconsin on the home page. How hypocritical is that ?

That is just a subset of items that I believe the guys running the board need to give some thought to

Dev,



Being a Canadian also, your post interests me, but I'm curious what your definition of an "Age Group Athlete" is, and what exactly you feel they require from Triathlon Canada?

Hi Dev,

Some good ideas here. Some things are more provincial, but either way. Lots of similarities to USAT issues as well, probably common among many national feds.

Joel

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JoelFilliol.com - check out the Real Coaching Podcast

Joel, thanks. I recognize that there is overlap with the provincial federations, but ideally, you have someone at the front of the ship setting the direction. The prov federations assist with the implementation.

A good example is the women's tri series that they are about to launch in 2005. If we can have a women's national tri series, why not just a regular "national series".

Oltriguy, see my list above for some ideas that Trican could be instrumental in spearheading across Canada that would cater to age groupers, which I define as anyone >20 who does not hold a pro/elite card.

Dev,



I agree with your suggestions that some basic information and resources should be made available to athletes. Beyond that though, I don't know that there's much else they could do, or be expected to do. The National Governing Body can't do much in the way of organizing race series or races as that's not their mandate. Maybe they could do more to encourage or facilitate race directors to move in that direction...I think it would be great to have a national race series complete with a points system, however, it seems to me that the sport is moving more towards "participation" rather than "competition".

In BC we've had a ProvincialRaceSeries for a few years but the number of athletes interested in competing for series points is pretty small. For a national series, I would think the numbers would be even smaller.

As far as Triathlon Canada goes, I agree they don't do a whole lot. I would be happy if they would just make a better website with more content, as you suggest , and get more members interested and involved that way for a start.

Dev,

Those are some excellent ideas. I particularly like the suggestion of training tips and articles. The one website that I think does this well would be USA Swimming (www.usaswimming.org). Go to the coach's tab and you will find lots of great articles.

I'm not so sure about the rankings or National Series. As you indicated, the majority of the growth is in the older age groups where most people are looking to participate. Of course, there's no harm in trying. Last year they started a National Junior Series and apparently this year they're going to add an Under 23 Series, so adding an Age Group Series division may be the next logical step.

Perhaps for a focus on Long Course Age Groupers they could include a page highlighting the results and race reports of age groupers at major IM races? Is this the sort of thing you had in mind?

Dan

Dev, I do agree that one needs to have a reason for TriCan to get involved in AG affairs. Quite simply your guests on this email thread don't know what else is out there or have a competing interest. You have some good ideas there and all have been done elsewhere but not in Canada and from a national perspective. If you look at the way TriCan is structured they have set themselves up as only an elite or developing body. It is true that TriCan does liase with other governing bodies and this is mostly with regards to elite (ish) issues. They do some, albeit minimal, AG NTL team work....always a bit messed up. At present I dare say and likely to many peoples distain, TriCan does a very poor job at what they do profess to do. My recommendation is to disband the lot as it is today and start anew. Presently this group is highly dysfunctional. Bill H and his minions are focused on the power and how to not loose it. No one will rock the boat at TriCan as this would spell disaster. Bill would ostracize them until they quit no doubt. (just speculation) Here are the problems that TriCan has; 1) lousy leadership. 2) no vision. 3) no mandate to change. 4) too much interference from present stakeholders (ITU, prov bodies, coaches, etc) and with the way things are set up this isn't about to change.......so get rid of the bunch of "nincompoops" and start over. The truth be told TriCan doesn't even do a reasonable job of helping the Elite level athletes and the development program sucks big time. I'm not sure how the Coach selection is done but if we ever want to see a real elite team this selection process has to change. USAT on the other hand is a very good operation for the average athlete to high end athlete (elite or AG). They (USAT) perhaps have too much on their plate and as I understand the USAT vision they do want to download some of the responsibility to the Regions and to the State level. We already have that part set up with the likes of OAT. TriCan should be the vision and the top stakeholder in this venture and all visions should filter down. At present most provincial bodies are going it alone. One asks what would or should TriCan do differently...quite simple really. The AG athletes who BTW contribute to the coffers mightily should have athlete Ranking programs, news, coaching, events, championships, general coordination of programs, and the list goes on. There 's a start. At present none of this exists and what does exist is from the prov level. (Steve is correct to assume that in the future the bulk of Elites will come from a Development program. In any case I think the whole JR development and general development program is backwards but that's another issue.) TriCan should have a hand at developing the AG talent as does USAT (USAT isn't perfect either). So to the original question about an AG rep on the TriCan board, great idea and plenty of reasons to support this. Good luck.