The Grand Canyon...



...sculpted by varying rates of water and windflow.

I think you should stay away from supra-maximal efforts that see your waters overflow your borders, leaving you with less resources at your command than you had the day before.

David, here's my opinion. Short answer is No. If you go so hard you hurt yourself because you haven't adapted well enough to the rigors of a sport, that's an example of Yes, but, I don't think this example is what you are talking about.

I agree that you are not confusing your mitochondria and their enzymes, nor doing other cellular screwing up of the oxygen/fuel burning processes by mixing up your workouts during a supposedly "prescribed" base phase. In fact, to get to the heart of your question, I think you and I will do better to do most of our workouts right around our maximum steady-state lactate level (slightly above it and below it is fine). I know when I dropped my workout intensity (due to so much advice on how to prep for an Iron distance) to mostly base workouts, I lost speed and fitness.

Next Iron distance I do, the prep phase will be much more similar to what another David on this board does. That's essentially this: During the week, swim 1 hour, then either twice more for 30 minutes or thrice more for 20 minutes. Run 1.5 hours, twice more for 45 minutes. Bike once for 3.5 hours, once for an hour, and once for 30 minutes as part of a bike/run brick. Do these efforts mostly at a high level of exertion, especially the 3.5 hour bike...this should be your best time trial possible at this distance.

I bet if you divided two evenly matched groups that only had 10-11 hours per week to work out, and had one doing mostly base, and another doing this kind of mostly circa maximum steady-state lactate level work, the group doing the faster work would win at all distances from sprint right up through Iron.

Don't be afraid to raise your work level on up there near way higher than "base" levels, as long as you aren't getting injured. You'll be faster.

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Quid quid latine dictum sit altum videtur
(That which is said in Latin sounds profound)

Here's a quote from cyclingnews.com, written by someone (Ric Stern) who infrequently posts on this forum, in response to a similar question:

"The idea that you should not do any intense exercise during the base period is a myth. Some coaches have suggested that low intensity, large volume 'base' type work leads to the increased development of capillary density, and that intense work somehow damages these capillaries. However, this is untrue, and a high capillary density is correlated with a high VO2max, which is best trained with intensities that approach and are around VO2max.

Just completing low intensity, large volume work for long periods of time will, not unsurprisingly make you better at cycling slowly for long periods of time! By doing this you would detrain other adaptations that have occurred from earlier in the year (e.g., race specific fitness). While you may not need to train as intensely during the winter as during the summer (although for some riders they should), it's a good idea to do some moderate and more intense intervals over the winter period to maintain or even increase certain aspects of your fitness.

As regards weight training, it won't have a great effect on your cycling performance (assuming you do endurance cycling events such as e.g., RR, TT, etc). Primarily, it will increase your sprint power if you increase your muscle cross sectional area, however, this will be at the expense of having a greater mass to lug up hill. Additionally, the increased cross sectional area will likely result in a decreased mitochondrial and capillary density which will result in decreased aerobic capacity. This will likely have a detrimental effect on your cycling.

For most people that I coach I would prescribe a mix of intensities through the majority of the winter. what that mix is, and how intense you should go will be dependent on many factors, including, e.g., time available for training, absolute fitness, relative fitness, the type of races you compete in, etc. Additionally, I would also prescribe various types of endurance work as well (not just 'LSD' type work)."

For me this year, training for a 1/2IM, I am doing no LSD work this winter. I am doing shorter trainer rides at a substantial percentage of my CP60, and swim intervals on short rest (4-6 seconds/100yd) near or below my intended race pace.

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"Go yell at an M&M"

I like the article but I have a different theory about higher intensity work during the base period. I am not a coach, doctor or have any qualification to give advise, this is my opinion.

I'm thinking that by "higher intensity" you mean "speed work" and if so I feel that a small amount of speed work is needed during the base phases of training to increase efficiency in that discipline. For me that would be swimming and running. For me I have found that just doing base training takes me to a level that flattens off. Introducing a little bit of speed work raises that level, I then train at that level untill it flattens off again.

"Higher Intensity" may also mean Muscular Endurance or Muscular Strength. I also think that these are necessary in the base phase to achieve a higher level of training. They may be more important later in training, but shouldn't be ignored in base.

Lastly you may feel high intenstiy means Lactate Threshold training. I do feel that this training should be done after the base phase is done but I don't think that it will ruin all of the work you did in the base phase.

jaretj

The answer is NO ! You might hurt or injure yourself though if you are not ready. If we blew base with intensity, our hunter forefathers would have never survived in the wild. They had to combine endurance (walking), with bursts of speed and power to get their prey. We are built to do both.

Building base is like putting $5 in the bank per hour. Anaerobic is like withdrawing $50. If you only have $100 in the bank, a couple of hours of intensity at Anaerobic threshold will likely deplete the bank account. If you go negative, that's when you get injured. For each person the ratio is different and it is based on your years in the sport, sport specific training, ability to recover, body composition, and genetics. You have to find your sweet spot. For the, the sweet spot is 40 min of race pace running per week, 1.5 hours of race pace XC skiing per week or 2 hours of race pace cycling per week. I'll only do this in the peak of race season as I lead up to my A races.

Since I race in both triathlon and XC skiing, I have a race season that runs from approximately end June to Sep and another that runs from end Jan to early Mar, so I get way too much intensity through the year and don't do much hard stuff in between seasons.

But yes, please do go and add some intensity to your training. For running as a bare minimum, throw in ~ 10-20 25-50 m surges every 5 minutes to keep your timing and coordination for high speed running. Makes the transition to race season a lot easier.

The quick answer is, No!

"Blow the base". Where does it go? This defies the basics and fundementals of human physiology.

Fleck

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Steve Fleck @stevefleck | Blog

Fleck, I totally agree with you. There is so much crap being fed to people these days. As you said, put in the miles, go hard once in a while, rest, race, repeat and have fun. This is the mother of all training plans.

I walked 40 min today to the office. That was my morning "workout". It does not go in the log, but it all adds up. At lunch, run and weights. I'll likely blow my "base" by going hard :-)

People often ask me what on earth I have a BSc in Biochemistry and Physiology when they see it on my resume and then see that I have worked in Sales and Sports Marketing and then Sales for 15 years. They don't see the connection.

Every time I see a post like this, I am glad that I have that BSc. In fact, along with a basic course in bike handling, I say that every triathlete should take a basic course in human Physiology. I think they would be very surprised at what they would learn and it may make a number of coaches/trainers a bit nervous.

Fleck

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Steve Fleck @stevefleck | Blog

Ken, to add to your post/my post -- some of the riders i coach, who are very time limited (e.g., don't want to train in the dark after work) and can't take more than say an hour on the trainer, the idea that traditional base work would be good, is completely wrong. it would be a waste of time. thus, with the people i coach who are time limited i have them do moderate and high intensity workouts during the week and longer sessions at the weekend.

ric

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http://www.cyclecoach.com

If you believe what Charmichael SAYS he believes, then YES.

Which means I say absolutely no. How can you expect to be fast if you train slow most of the time? Do power/weightlifters drop their poundages radically in cycles? Well, they do cycle somewhat, since they aren't always at PR levels, but they dial it back down a LITTLE not a lot.

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Too f@ckin depressed from various injuries to care about having a signature line.

Sponsored by Blue Shield PPO.

Can you "blow" base with higher intensity work?

In a word - No. There is such a thing as interferance. High intensity training can interfere with base volume if you do too much of it, but that is simply a recovery issue. However the idea that you could "blow' your base with anaerobic work with a myth.

Joel

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JoelFilliol.com - check out the Real Coaching Podcast

This might interest you:

http://www.triathloncoach.com/articles/rethink.html

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"I spent a lot of money on booze, birds and fast cars, the rest I just squandered" -George Best

question for the coaches - even smartasscoach. mark allen and mike pigg (under maffetone) believed in a base period with zero speedwork. allen continues to preach this through articles and his coaching.

obviously it worked for him - is he wrong? are there more ways than one to train for a triathlon (gasp!)?

Not so...

To quote Carmichael...

Quote:

"Training intensity is another key to reaching your fitness and weight loss goals. Many athletes who are balancing jobs, families, bills, and training have between one and two hours to devote to training, three to four days a week. Training time often becomes even more limited once the days get shorter in the fall and winter. When your training volume is restricted to six to eight hours per week, your individual workouts can be more intense than a person who’s putting in 20 hours per week on the bike. This doesn’t mean that every workout should be a flat-out time trial or maximum effort, but it does mean that you’re most likely getting enough recovery from the days you’re not riding that some harder workouts won’t put you at significant risk of overtraining.

If you have 60-90 minutes to train after work, three days a week, you should be including intervals into those rides. Even during the winter, when tradition dictates that cyclists stick to easy aerobic rides, a cyclist with very limited training time will benefit from breaking from the norm and including harder efforts. Depending on your fitness level and goals, these intervals might be 10 to 20 minute efforts at a high, but sustainable power; or they might be two to three minute maximum intensity efforts. In any case, they should target an individual energy system so they lead to positive adaptations, and they will definitely increase the caloric expenditure and total workload for the session."


The full article:

http://www.roadcycling.com/news/article900.shtml

I can understand wanting some down time during the year where you avoid intense work... just to allow the body and, more importantly, the mind to rejuvenate. However, I also believe it's necessary to do some form of intensity at varying degrees for the majority of the year...even if it's only once or twice a week at times.

I know I've always needed a month or 2 to just workout and not worry about going fast, but I wonder if the break was needed more from the mental side of things than the physical.

The only thing i'd disagree with is the weight lifting...but only in regards to older athletes since you start losing muscle mass after 30...and I believe mark allen adopted a wieght program in his later years because of this. Of course, he did his homework and used a weight program that addressed his specific needs without adding unwanted bulk....well...at least according to the article I read.

i agree with the others that you can't 'blow' your base. but i look at base work as a psychological rest period as well as a physical one. you can only train long hours/intense hours so long. then you need a break. some people just need a few weeks once in a while, others a lot more. if you are doing a few triathlons, one being IM distance, each year then you may need a month off completely and 2-3 months of basicly easy stuff with some intensity to prepare yourself for race season. then you can start the build up/ intensity for race season.

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"Competetive sport begins where healthy sport ends"

another dissenting opinion here - I can't see how this would be possible. However I do think there are bad effects from too much intensity in a base phase, that may not be purely physiological - cf Hans Selye's General Adaptation syndrome.

Mark Allen: "Your body will only respond to the same training stimulus for a finite period of time. After that, to continue to build fitness, the type of stress has to be varied."
http://www.insidetri.com/train/tips/articles/2070.0.html

The important thing in base is exactly this 'varying'.

One winter I tried minimizing intensity, doing mostly drills in the pool, easy rides and runs. The problem was that due to time limitations, I didn't significantly increase volume. In the spring I found myself desperately slow. For us time-limited trainers, intensity and consistency have to substitute for a real base phase. I've no doubt at all I'd see significant performance gains from an off-season of high volume and low intensity, followed by a peaking phase, but I don't have time for it..

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"It is a good feeling for old men who have begun to fear failure, any sort of failure, to set a schedule for exercise and stick to it. If an aging man can run a distance of three miles, for instance, he knows that whatever his other failures may be, he is not completely wasted away." Romain Gary, SI interview

I get more than enough strength training while swimming and biking (where strength isn't the limiting factor) and running. At 46 and counting, if I'm losing muscle mass, it isn't apparent to me in either my physique or my performance.

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"Go yell at an M&M"

Ken, maybe that theory of losing muscle mass as one ages comes from the simple observation of the "average" population, not the athletes. If so, it would certainly explain this commonly held belief.

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Quid quid latine dictum sit altum videtur
(That which is said in Latin sounds profound)

Thanks for all of your replies. Most of you stated what I feel about training and "base." David Krahulik

Paul

Do you race tug hill tourathon south of the border ?

Dirtball, I am not aware of this race. Give me details, locations, times etc. Always upp to try a different event if it is in driving distance and I can pull it off without blowing more than a half weekend. My ideal race is in town. Back on Sunday before noon and my family does not even notice that I am gone. For out of town events, I like ones where I can hang around the house till 7 pm on Sat, drive to the race site, camp by the Tzone, race on Sunday morning and be home by 3 pm...which limits most of the racing to Eastern Ontario, Southern Quebec, Northern NY or even Vermont. In general, I prefer to not blow the whole weekend (ie Fri evening to Sun evening) being away unless the destination is such that my family will come along . I try to save that for one or two events per year (ie Duke Half Ironman and Westchester Olympic tri last year).

I live across the river from Kingston . Land of the Lyme sprint tri in Aug. The tourathon is a race series on tug hill about 45 miles south from the frindship bridge. Tug hill is in the snow belt off of lake Onrario. I have never raced but ski their and MT bike in summer. They get lots of snow on the tug hill. I bet it would work great for you.Google tug hill tourathon and you will find more info. I might try it this year. I like eating humble pie I guess

Dirt

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