Good God! Your old man sure turned into a stud runner. What happened to you?

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LOL ! The American "Runner's World, I want something for nothing approach".. love it.

Its the same crossover mentality that obese people in this country try to follow and are depressed when they don't lose weight: "8 minute abs".. "lose a zillion pounds on the cheesecake diet".. "think yourself to weight lose".

Ugh.

He would be SOOO much faster!

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Team Timex 2014
@ajhodges

Ha !

I try not to abuse the LOL thing but I did lol on that one, sweet !

I kind of veered into a path of self torture: ritualistic self beatings, UFC fighting, going to bullfights on acid, ect.. I also shave my scrotum daily, its quite breathtaking and I suggest you try it.

(Inane Austin Powers reference)

can we agree that the only way to get faster is to stress the body, either by adding volume or intensity or some combination?

I think Dan says it best in his article on killing your 10k PR:

Because Rainer, and most German pros, were already training as much as is humanly (or are they human??) possible.

He couldn't train more when switching to IM :-))

Good point !!

These is no number higher than infinity !

No we can't, because it's not about "some combination" of volume and intensity. What we're trying to say here is that it's VOLUME that makes a much bigger impact in your running performance. VOLUME!

And funny that you quote the old man, he's saying exactly what we're trying to say here. Slowman knows running :-)

Unless his real limiter is running form. Then speedwork (the shorter - like 200m - the better) could help him and be a priority, along with running drills and carefully and slowly do more and more weekly yardage.

Nobody talked about running form yet. But the guy is already a great swimmer, a good bike rider, and he most probably "sucks" (sorry for this) at running because of poor form AND not enough training of the running tools.

He has the aerobic engine, I would say, he needs to convert it to running.

Sheehan had it right...we're each an experiment of one. There is no "one size fits all" workout.

I set a 1:00:15 ten mile PR on around 35-40 mpw running, and ran an 8:46 fifty-miler (JFK) on not much more, with a long week of 45.

Could I have run faster if I trained 50, 60, 70 miles a week? Nope. Because my biomechanics are so screwed that at that kind of mileage I'd have been crippled with injuries.

One each overdistance, AT, and red line workout every week, on alternate days. Mileage as I could tolerate it. Lots of cycling. That's what did it for me.

But I got a hell of a lot faster when my red line workout was 800s on 400R!

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Reverisco!

Brian ,

Can I use this as my signature? This is good (yet will probably continue to be ignored = ^ ( )

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-----------------------------Baron Von Speedypants
-----------------------------RunTraining articles here:
http://forum.slowtwitch.com/...runtraining;#1612485

Running is like math and doing your homework. Analogy to your question...I am taking Advanced Calculus and I study 20 mins a week, why am failing the test??? Get real dude...20 miles a week is what my grand father does.

Your grandfather subscribes to Runner's World too : ) ?

Perfect! More anecdotal evidence which I'm sure will make Mr. Stover very happy.

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Team Timex 2014
@ajhodges

No one talked about form because, unlike swimming, it is WAYYY down the list of priorities.

It's kind of like when a person comes to a financial advisor and says, "I work 10 hours a week and have $2.65 in my pocket. I want more money," and the advisor says, "have you thought about investing that money in real estate?"

He can swim and swim and ride and ride and work on his form and he will not have increased his running muscles ability to perform one bit. Or, he can rebalance his program and increase his mileage by 50%.

My guess is one of his likely limiters is weight (though he hasn't voluntered this information). I'm not saying he's fat, but possibly just a larger man. I've known a few how will float in the pool and roll on a bike, but once they get on their feet they actualy have to start to carry that weight! This is just a guess and hasn't really been adressed because talking about it won't make him faster. The only advice there is "be someone else." ; )

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-----------------------------Baron Von Speedypants
-----------------------------RunTraining articles here:
http://forum.slowtwitch.com/...runtraining;#1612485

Those of us who have coached are experiments of hundreds. Those of us who read and observe and discuss with other coaches are experiments of thousands.

Speed will always give you the quickest results but volume will give you the biggest. Do you want to get 30 sec faster now or 2 minutes faster over the next 2 years? You can have both but you have to know how to time them.

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-----------------------------Baron Von Speedypants
-----------------------------RunTraining articles here:
http://forum.slowtwitch.com/...runtraining;#1612485

I came across this guy:

http://www.lifebeginsat.com/

He dropped his 1 mile race pace from 7:30 minutes/mile to about 5 minutes/mile for 1 mile.

BarryP you can use that as your signature, just give me some of the credit ;-). I think if we ever get the chance to sit and talk, I'll enjoy our discussions on training.

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Brian Stover USAT LII
Accelerate3 Coaching
Insta

Keep banging your head against the wall. Sooner or later the dummy's get it, or you stop b/c your head hurts. Most of the time I just end up stopping. It's rare when the masses on ST get the proper advice. Most would rather use the N=1 advice that someone with no formal coaching training, education or coaching experience gave them. They fail to realize that volume is the foundation of aerobic success. Most view triathlon and how to get faster through an 9in TV screen, where we are using the big 56in plasma's. Now where did I put the aspirin?

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Brian Stover USAT LII
Accelerate3 Coaching
Insta

Now where did I put the aspirin?[/reply]
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You sell Aspirin now? :-)

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Josef
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blog

LOL. I should, I have to buy a ton to stop my head from hurting after reading all the disinfomation on ST when it comes to training advice.

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Brian Stover USAT LII
Accelerate3 Coaching
Insta

[reply]LOL. I should, I have to buy a ton to stop my head from hurting after reading all the disinfomation on ST when it comes to training advice.[/reply]
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makes my job easier...

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Josef
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blog

It's not just ST. This thread reminds me of a situation I had at our local track practice about a year ago. A guy was getting into running in his 30's and was doing what everyone suggested....1 intense track session a week. His times dropped by about 45 seconds over a 6 week period and then plateaued and slowly began to rise over the next 8 months. Frustrated, he asked what he could do to get faster and the first thing some one said was, "You need to do 1/4's" I flipped and turned to him and said, "No. That is the last thing you need!" The guy's been racing every other weekend and running V02max sessions at 15 sec. faster than 5K pace for 8 months......and someone tells him he needs 1/4's!!!!!?????

I pulled him aside one day and broke down the entire process for him (not unlike what has been done several times on this thread). He pretty much got confused and said "how is running slower going to make me faster?" The end result was that my meeting with him got relayed back to the group, they all had a good laugh and decided I was a jerk because I was telling him that none of them know how to train.

By the way, I find that asperin doesn't help much. Just train more. ; )

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-----------------------------Baron Von Speedypants
-----------------------------RunTraining articles here:
http://forum.slowtwitch.com/...runtraining;#1612485

OK, left my advice too open to confusion. The interval sessions were say Wednesday as your interval day; week 1: 12 x 400 w/ 60 sec. recovery @ 10K pace + 10%, week 2: 6-8 X 1000m w 90 sec recovery @ 10 k pace, week 3: 4 x 1 mile @ 10k pace w/ 2:00 recovery. week 4 repeat week 1 maybe add 2 more intervals, week 5 repeat week 2, etc. etc. until time to taper for "A" race. As far as total milage for a TRIATHLETE IN SEASON, 30 is plenty in a week. In the off season 50+ is needed for a real good base. I ran a 2:28:30 Mary using this basic plan in 1992. good luck!

I like to call it the McWorkout.

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-----------------------------Baron Von Speedypants
-----------------------------RunTraining articles here:
http://forum.slowtwitch.com/...runtraining;#1612485