Let me give a nice simple review of one wheel...the Zipp 404 -vs- Zipp 404 Clincher.

Well..the clincher SUCKS! Let there be no question that in the hand you can feel that the Clincher weights more than that of the Tubbie. On the bike...the clincher with Vittoria Rubino Pro tires felt and turned in quite heavy as compare to the tubbie (Corsa CX). I had both at 130lbs and rode both on the same bike (Litespeed Ultimate) on the same day - on the same road. The Clincher felt much more harsh over bumps, and really put a shock into the bike with expansion joints (I know that is a tire thing maybe) I am thinking that the harshness is the metal hoop at the rims outer diameter.

Either way...boy I love Zipp wheels...I really love my 909's...and really dont care for my buddies 404 clinchers (came on his B2).

So..your question..IMO a small amount of weight did a ton for the performance and feel of the wheel by the same brand...I would get the lighter wheel...and get a tubular.

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What if the Hokey Pokey is what it is all about?

Dude, way to spoil my lunch... I have clincher 808s on order. Just couldn't get myself to run the risk of rolling a tire or dealing w/ the mess of that glue.

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Too f@ckin depressed from various injuries to care about having a signature line.

Sponsored by Blue Shield PPO.

if the tubular is glued correctly there's a higher chance of you doing this with a clincher. I have scars to prove it.


In regards to how difficult it is to switch: if you have a Shima-NO hub you can use an American Classic conversion cassette and it works great with Campy. I have first hand experience of this as well. Not to mention that it's easier to sell off Shima-NO wheels than Campy.

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New rule for ST users to make this a better place:
When someone asks for ADVICE, don't be a douche. Give advice or STFU.

To answer the real question - it is SUPER easy to change the freehub...super easy.



If you can get the 808 Tubbies, get them. I was truly shocked when I felt the diffrence between the Clincer and Tubbie. I would have thought that were not even the same wheelbrand, let alone model. The way I see it - if I can feel the weight diffrence in my hand as an obvious difference...that will certainly make one on the bike...and it did. The cornering like I said may be all tires - then again a Corsa CX sew up should corner better than a Rubino Pro.

Dont worry about rolling a tire...that is about as common as a shark attack...and Myth Busters said you have a better chance of getting killed by a falling coconut than a shark

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What if the Hokey Pokey is what it is all about?

The Zipp free hub bodies are very simple to swap.

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Thanks for the input so far. Anyone have experience converting the HED hub? Can the free hub be changed like the Zipps or is the only option an aftermarket conversion cassette?

IceDevil refers only to Tubulars, I don't see any mention of clinchers.

ID if budget is a concern Campy groupos are really expensive and Shimanos are still really good. Good enough for Team Disco and many other pros. As mentioned the Zipps have hubs made for both groupos.

Said was afraid of slipping a tubbie. Fact is I should write up a review on the 404 vs 404. I was like I said, quite shocked that they are like night and day. That was the main point - not Campy or Shimano (for once for me).

Though, there is no reaon to think that you cant have a Campy Tri bike...mine all work great.

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What if the Hokey Pokey is what it is all about?

Not related to hubs, but to rims. Heard from many sources that the braking on the Stingers is, well, not so great. I ended up with 404 tubies, braking is pretty good with both the Kool Stop black pads and the Zipp pads. They burn through pads like crazy, but they also stop the bike - and that's kinda important.

Agreed 404 Tubbies besides the ride, the weight diff wins hands down on the Clinchers.

Nothing at all wrong with Campy TT bike if you've got the extra cash and willing to spend it. What's the diff in Rekord Carbon groupo and Shimano DurAce? For the budget conscious even the Ultegra 10 speed is very nice indeed.

On the subject of advantage from better equipment, in reality our road bikes today aren't really a big leap in performance advantage over the road bikes of a couple of decades ago. Yes of course some advantages in material used to achieve lightness, we've got more gears to play with and some aero advantages. But in reality not a huge leap in performance of the equipment. The same old triangle framed bike ...well it's getting really old.

I for one would like to see the bicycle evolve technologically into considerably faster equipment. In order for this to happen, them old farts who sit at the head of UCI need to relax their rules. (UCI cancelled the Kilo and 500 sprints for the next Olympics! That sucks!) Right now even the positioning of the saddle fore and aft has strict ruling. As long as the rider sits atop the bicycle things like triangle shaped frame, wheel size etc need not be a must. No reason! Provided handling and safety are not compromized, bikes can even be allowed to be faired at the front.

Let them R&D boys come out to play and see what goodies they can come up with. As it is right now these guys are so constrained they got to come up with things like electronic shifters. As if that will improve performance. I for one would like to ride on a bike with let's say 50% more speed for the same effort and watch the pros getting up to even more incredible speeds.

Don't know about you guys, but I really dislike the sticky practice of sticking to rules for rules sake and the hindrance of progress because of some imagined perceptions of sticking to traditions. It's usually the old farts attending to their artheritis, flatulation and piles that enforce such things. I'm an old fart too, hence the long windedness but at least I'm riding and swimming, and participating as opposed to excercising authority from a couch.

Another thing to consider if you're running Campy 10-speed at the moment and are thinking of getting a tri bike with Shimano 10-speed:

You can get Campy 10-speed to work perfectly well with a Shimano 10-speed cluster and chain (or equivalent after market chain from the usual suspects). I did it with my road bike so I could borrow a friend's race wheels w/Shimano freehub. It worked so well that I've just kept the bike that way, as where I live Campy clusters and chains are rarely in stock and they cost a ton.

I needed a new chain and cluster at the time, anyway, and it cost me pretty much exactly the same as the American Classic conversion cassette sells for. I've also used the AC conversion cassette with good results, but that was like 50K km. ago...