"will you be taking your campy bike with FSA Compacts and 13x29?"

pretty darned close. i actually DID replace my record cranks with FSA MegaExos w/34x50 aboard, tho with my 12-25. it rides GREAT.

but no, i'm not taking a bike. i'm just taking running shoes. i'm going to RUN up the marmolada instead (but not in a devil's costume, or with a flag).

---

Dan Empfield
aka Slowman

"Was the Dolomites part of the conversation?"

i brought them up, yes. and i thought it a sort of cheeky thing to say on his part, as it bespeaks a company that doesn't really care to export. "we make parts for those of our italian customers who are retro in their approaches," seemed to be the tenor of the comment.

now let's consider you, an englishman (right?). i was in devon/cornwall not long ago, and it seemed to me some nice climbs in dartmoor begged for something other than a 39x25. so it's not just us americans that need a smaller gear now and then.

i used to race with a 13/21 (and sometimes 23). but that was when 5 cogs were all you could get. now that there are 10, it seems that having a 12t on the back and something larger than 25 to pair with it is a reasonable expectation (i'm not really interested in road riding with a triple).

---

Dan Empfield
aka Slowman

Tell me about it....I live in Plymouth!!! :)

"Tell me about it....I live in Plymouth!!! :)"

lucky man.

except it's a shame that the national shire horse center closed down.

---

Dan Empfield
aka Slowman

Blimey....used to ride past the field they kept some of the flippin' huge horseys in, don't know why it closed down though.....or the Totnes Motor Museum either, they both went around the same time, I think.....strange :(

yup know that feeling, but with FSA crank not DA, luckly for me there was a burrito fast food joint where I could hang out until the wife came to pick me up!

---

__________________________________________________
Simple Simon
Where's the Fried Chicken??

The "Q-Factor" was not created by Tom Ritchey and it doesn't have much if anything to do with aerodynamics

It is a comfort and injury thing. If your feet are closer together they are generally more comfortable. A lower Q also puts less strain on your knees and ankles. Less pain and a more effient spedal stroke might translate into more speed but it might just make it easier to stay on the bike for another 30 km. The Q on road cranks has really gone up in the past several years and if Campy can bring that back down they'd probably make a few friends out of even retro-grouches like me. It is a good idea. You can really tell a difference in the bike if you have one with a low Q and one with a high Q. The low Q will be much more comfortable if everything else is identical.

My only real issue with such a radical change is that those of us with an exisiting bike are sometimes left out in the cold if we don't wish to spend our retirement savings on a bunch of new components. I don't want to have to replace everything when I need a bottom bracket.

I hope that Campy dosn't simply stop making at least one decent crank with a square taper and a bottom bracket in three or four lengths.

I'm sure electric shifting would make my teeth hurt. I don't know how but It it would.

---

________________________________________

Captain Gray Beard PhD
Cyclist and Retro-Grouch

Campy makes fixed to ;-)

I just can't afford it.

I hate the religous parts freeks.
I have had them all beak.

Thom

---

Slowtwitch bitchist place on planet earth

Hmm, so you give Shimano the credit for innovating combined brake/shift levers??? I guess you have missed the boat completely then, to use your own words ;-)

Shimano was not the ones inventing combined brake/shift levers and it was not Campagnolo either. It was the German engineer Hans-Christian Smolik who invented and patented the combined brake/shift levers all the way back in 1981, and he was ahead of both Shimano and Campagnolo by a long shot with this invention. Nobody wanted to by his invetion/patent back then though and it took Shimano many years to pick up the idea. Hans-Chirstian Smolik holds a number of bike related patents and is regarded as one of the most innovative bike inventors/developers.

Here's his company website: http://www.smolik-velotech.de

He has now joined the German bike manufacturer Canyon http://canyon.com/...r_canyon/smolik.html who makes the stiffest bike ever tested by Europe's largest bike magazine Tour, the Canyon F10 bike is also very light and cheap and also has the highest STW (Stifness To Weight) ratio ever tested. Number 2 behind Canyon F10 in the stiffness and STW tests is the new Cervélo R3 which costs double as much as F10.

Hans-Christian Smolik also made the first 6 kg bike in 1981. In 1984 he made the first 5,3 kg bike. 20 years later in 2004 he made a 3,7 kg bike, although this is only a showbike and not very rideable because of the simple components like gear etc.

Give credit where credit is due.

well, seeing as i am unable to really decipher much German, i'd be happy to take your word for it. i stand corrected.

but would you post a link to a drawing or diagram or photo of the 'original' "STI" invention, design, patent, etc. by Hans-Christian Smolik ?

i guess what i really should have said in the post you quoted was that Shimano was the first to bring to mass market a truly usable and highly refined combined shift and brake lever, where one lever actually is able to do both (that is, shift and brake).

---

---

Where would you want to swim ?

---

Brems/Schaltgriff:

Im Bremsgriff untergebrachte Schrittschaltvorrichtung, damit der Gangwechsel sowohl vom Ober- wie vom Unterlenker aus getätigt werden kann, ohne die Hand vom Bremsgriff zu nehmen. Dieses 1981 eingereichte Patent wollte seinerzeit kein Hersteller haben, ist aber von der Funktion her als Vorläufer der 1992 heutigen Brems/Schaltgriffe zu sehen. Skizzen und Bild im Archiv.

---

And Hans-Chistian Smolik's profile from Canyon: http://canyon.com/...r_canyon/smolik.html

i looked all over the site, do you by chance have a link to this original STI-type product, so i could take a look at it? or a patent no. ?

---

---

Where would you want to swim ?

Electronic shifting always gets hammered in user forums for a very simple reason. Not thinking outside the box. I will agree with almost everyone here that current STI/Ergo brake lever shifting systems work great and electronic shifting will probably not improve this much.

But this misses the ENTIRE point of electronic shifting, in that it is ELECTRONIC! Cable based systems have one point of control. Imagine putting shift buttons on the aero bars as well as the break hoods. I don't do tri stuff, but I have speed bars on my bike, and they make a huge difference, but I can't shift on that position. With electronic shifting, I would be able do just that. I will never be able to do that with a cable system.

I would also be able to shift on the top of the bars as well, or any other place I wanted to do so. This is the WHOLE point of electronic shifting.

Now suppose that you add in a heart rate monitor, power monitor, GPS unit and incline detector into the mix. You already know speed and cadence. Now you know where you are on the course, what the grade is, and what is coming up. Now imagine that the bike can figure this all out and select the gear most suitable for you to be in. This is the future.

Cable shifting will look quaint at some point, kind of like most things from 30 years ago. The future is electronic, not cable shifting systems.

Shimano is field testing their new electronic shifting group at the moment

The Japanese riders at the continental team Skil-Shimano http://www.skilcyclingteam.com are already testing a prototype of the new electronic Shimano group at the roads of the Spanish island Mallorca these days: http://weightweenies.starbike.com/...iewtopic.php?t=13863


Shimano patents:

"Motor driven Derailleur" http://v3.espacenet.com/...57&QPN=EP1609716

Electrical shift control device for a bicycle transmission http://v3.espacenet.com/...&QPN=DE69829234T

"If your feet are closer together they are generally more comfortable. A lower Q also puts less strain on your knees and ankles. "

"The low Q will be much more comfortable if everything else is identical. "


That's total BS.

"ideal" Q is directly related to an individual rider's morphology, and a generalization like this is worse than useless - it is mis-informed and just plain wrong.

There is data to suggest that contrary to what you state, more riders need larger "q" than smaller, relative to what is present on modern bikes.

Personally, I am in the small-Q camp; my legs are abnormally close together, so I need as small a Q as possible. That doesn't make my personal preference/requirement a general or absolute "good thing."

- take for example Lance Armstrong; he wound up rejecting a special Trek TT bike with a super narrow profile frame (based on the Walser narrow BB bike,) because the Q was too narrow for him to ride....





.

---

Tech writer/support on this here site. FIST school instructor and certified bike fitter. Formerly at Diamondback Bikes, LeMond Fitness, FSA, TiCycles, etc.
Coaching and bike fit - http://source-e.net/ Cyclocross blog - https://crosssports.net/ BJJ instruction - https://ballardbjj.com/

And it looks like Shimano (as well as Campy) is still not thinking out of the box. They are just producing clones of the existing single control point cable systems. This is doomed to failure in my book.

Electronic shifting only makes sense when you look at the electronic side, ie. multiple control points, automatic control and gear recording (also possible with cable shifting, but what is the point if you can't go the other way once you have the data). Only then does it become interesting.

i am curious to see it, would you post a direct link to a drawing, or diagram, or photo of the 'original' "STI" invention, design, patent, etc. by this engineer, Hans-Christian Smolik ?

---

---

Where would you want to swim ?

[reply]i am curious to see it, would you post a direct link to a drawing, or diagram, or photo of the 'original' "STI" invention, design, patent, etc. by this engineer, Hans-Christian Smolik ?[/reply]

The German text says that photos and drawings are still kept in the Smolik website's archive, but I couldn't find it.

thanks for trying.

and if you happen to find a patent no., let me know...

---

---

Where would you want to swim ?

I guess the new Campagnolo cranksets will look similar to the Negmass crankset and Specialized crankset: http://www.negmass.com










Specialized:

No kidding about the price of those Canyons, dont read German but if I understand it those prices includes all the components and wheels, full Record with Mavics Kys is 3400 Eu which is about 4600 CND and the that is pretty good price considering how expensive Schmolke branded stuff usually is

---

__________________________________________________
Simple Simon
Where's the Fried Chicken??

Say it ain't so.

---

Call me Big Dick

Now my problem is whether to wait for the new design- I am in the process of replacing all my cranksets with longer ones (I have long legs, did a bunch of reasearch/measurements, and turns out I ought to be riding 180's). Record alloy 180's have been out of stock for the past month from all US importers; at least all of them that my LBS can order from. Now I don't know if I should wait for the new design, OR just go with something other than Campy. I emailed FSA about whether they would offer anything other than 170-175; they flat out told me that it isn't cost effective to produce anything outside of that range. My only other option is the Truvativ Roleur alloy (external bearings). Nice crankset, but I'm afraid it won't shift as well as my Campy (and it will interrupt my otherwise full Campy group!). Yarrgh...

I thought about, and still think about, getting 180's or bigger. Did you ever look at the stronglight? They seem to get good reviews, go w/ square taper, and can be had in a range of price points. I'd be interested to know if you have any opinions or experience w/ this brand.

DA makes great 180s.

my prediction: FSA and others in that range will go to making 180s very soon (couple of years).

---

---

Where would you want to swim ?