COVID Cycling Distancing

Jan 2, 21 11:51

Post #1 of 67 (3265 views)

So this has been gnawing on me and I like to hear from those who are equally annoyed/affected or think it’s an non-issue.

Out riding solo I often have other cyclists overtake me (yes, I am old and slow) unannounced with way less than 3 feet of space (group ride style) and then look at me and open mouth breath into my face.
I don’t know any of them (those I know do announce), but chances are they are highly educated.
It annoys the hell out of me, from a general safety perspective and now even more because of the virus.
.
Rarely am I able to pull up my mask in time....and any convo is a higher risk, so I suffer silently.

How do others that feel similarly uncomfortable in times of social distancing deal with this?
.
Already avoiding MUTs and highly popular routes, but won’t give up riding outside.

Have actually seen a guy wearing a handmade ‘COVID! 6ft’ pin-on.
Strap pool noodle to saddle?
Cough loudly?
Ride unsteady?

Last edited by: windschatten: Jan 2, 21 23:26

Re: COVID Cycling Distancing [windschatten] [ In reply to ]

Jan 2, 21 12:26

Post #2 of 67 (3228 views)

While the chances of getting an infectious dose from such brief contact is quite small, I share your uneasiness and wish folks would pass with 6' of spacing. Based on the group rides I see, there are lots of folks who seem OK with pack riding, so they probably feel fine passing close to you.

I like the idea of a patch (or jersey) with a "Covid <-6ft.->" message on it. If they know you have a concern, I'll bet that most will be respectful.

The problem is everyone has their own standards. Personally, I do passes like it was a non-drafting tri (pull out of the bike lane to the center of the right lane [so more than 6'] from about 20m back and try to pass quickly). I still have some folks that pull up a bandana/gator as I go by and give me dirty looks. A few days ago I saw a TIBCO pro riding with her mask on even with no one nearby. I also see pack of a dozen riding buddies chatting away in pre-Covid fashion.

ECMGN Therapy Silicon Valley:
Depression, Neurocognitive problems, Dementias (Testing and Evaluation), Trauma and PTSD, Traumatic Brain Injury (TBI)

Re: COVID Cycling Distancing [Titanflexr] [ In reply to ]

Jan 2, 21 12:36

Post #3 of 67 (3211 views)

Yeah, looks
like we’re riding on comparable grounds.

Appreciate the courtesy and always return with a wave, if given.
Share, live and let live.

Maybe many are new to cycling, deeply hypoxic, or are just anti-mask.

With the new more aerosol based (lighter) virus variant risk goes up (or at least that’s what we know as of now).

Maybe a jersey is the way to go as a reminder for those who do care....

Plus mostly posted here as a reminder that some (maybe in a risk group) choose to ride distanced/alone for COVID reasons.

Last edited by: windschatten: Jan 2, 21 12:58

Re: COVID Cycling Distancing [windschatten] [ In reply to ]

Jan 2, 21 12:56

Post #4 of 67 (3176 views)

6' is a general guideline but it's not magic. Spending 15min with someone 6' away is probably 100x worse than getting past by a cyclist. The viral dose you'll get from someone riding beside you at 30kph is very low.

Re: COVID Cycling Distancing [windschatten] [ In reply to ]

Jan 2, 21 13:07

Post #5 of 67 (3164 views)

The cars on the road are a much greater threat to your health. Don't let the healthy people out exercising distract you.

Re: COVID Cycling Distancing [gregf83] [ In reply to ]

Jan 2, 21 13:11

Post #6 of 67 (3157 views)

gregf83 wrote:

6' is a general guideline but it's not magic. Spending 15min with someone 6' away is probably 100x worse than getting past by a cyclist. The viral dose you'll get from someone riding beside you at 30kph is very low.

Appreciate the response.
What you say about Time and Space is true to some extend. And the risk maybe very low side by side at 30mph and headwind.

But scenarios with climbing, (side-) wind, directly behind and/or getting a full dose directly to the face from an asympomatic jungling?
Those real scenarios are not supported by any science I have seen. Especially with the new variant.

I get this ‘quite small’ generalized brushing it off quite often.
If that’s your stance, that’s an explanation, although a rather selfish one.
You may make these consensual decisions within your bubble, but shouldn’t impose them on others. Especially if it doesn’t cost you anything (except your Strava PB), to be considerate.

Last edited by: windschatten: Jan 2, 21 13:48

Re: COVID Cycling Distancing [windschatten] [ In reply to ]

Jan 2, 21 13:48

Post #7 of 67 (3110 views)

Think of it in the context of a probability equation. The probability that a person has Covid and is contagious and feels well enough to ride a bike at a high level is probably very low. So, I would not worry about this. The risk is much higher indoors and with people who may not be feeling well but go out anyway.

Re: COVID Cycling Distancing [exxxviii] [ In reply to ]

Jan 2, 21 13:57

Post #8 of 67 (3096 views)

exxxviii wrote:

Think of it in the context of a probability equation. The probability that a person has Covid and is contagious and feels well enough to ride a bike at a high level is probably very low. So, I would not worry about this. The risk is much higher indoors and with people who may not be feeling well but go out anyway.

OK.
Again: show me the science.
People here on this forum openly state they train through COVID (even when symptomatic).
That doesn’t gel, doesn’t it?

Again, what you consider little risk may be high risk to others.
This isn’t decision by majority.

Re: COVID Cycling Distancing [windschatten] [ In reply to ]

Jan 2, 21 14:03

Post #9 of 67 (3087 views)

You should stay inside until you get vaccinated.

Countering with “people on this forum” is as about as unscientific as you can get.

Here is some quick science for you. But, I don’t think you will find anyone’s study that identifies transmission by cyclist. So, you should probably avoid all activities until then.

NY (and a few other governments) analyzed the most common sources of transmission. Ignore the home transmission in this table and focus on the other sources. They do not define “Sports,” so my hunch it is kids sports since there are very few collegiate and professional sports in the state of NY. Gyms is very far down the list.

https://spectrumlocalnews.com/...ct-tracing-data-show

Re: COVID Cycling Distancing [exxxviii] [ In reply to ]

Jan 2, 21 14:15

Post #10 of 67 (3073 views)

exxxviii wrote:

You should stay inside until you get vaccinated.
]

Umm ok,
thanks again for showing you care.

Last edited by: windschatten: Jan 2, 21 14:26

Re: COVID Cycling Distancing [windschatten] [ In reply to ]

Jan 2, 21 14:24

Post #11 of 67 (3059 views)

windschatten wrote:

So this has been gnawing on me and I like to hear from those who are equally annoyed/affected or think it’s an non-issue.

Out riding solo I often have other cyclists overtake me (yes, I am old and slow) unannounced with less than 3 feet of space (group ride style) and then look at me and open mouth breath into my face ( sometimes even talking at me).
I don’t know any of them (those I know do announce), but chances are they are highly educated.
It annoys the hell out of me, both from a general safety perspective and now even more because of the virus.

Not afraid to defend my space on the road or in a pack of equal abilities, but it’s a no go in that situation.
Rarely am I able to pull up my mask in time....and any convo is a higher risk, so I suffer silently.

How do others that feel similarly uncomfortable in times of social distancing deal with this?
.
Already avoiding MUTs and highly popular routes, but won’t give up riding outside.

Have actually seen a guy wearing a handmade ‘COVID! 6ft’ pin-on.
Strap pool noodle to saddle?
Cough loudly?
Ride unsteady?

Can't have one's cake and eat it, unless you go out at really less than busy hours or ride on roads without a lot of cyclists.

Though I mostly ride indoors, it's a risk I'm fine with when I go outside. Surgical mask when on the MUP (though I won't make that mistake again), and hope for the best once I'm out on country roads.

That said, when I do pass others, it's a quick wave; though it has always been like that for the past six years or so.

Post deleted by windschatten [ In reply to ]

Jan 2, 21 14:31

Post #12 of 67 (3046 views)

Last edited by: windschatten: Jan 2, 21 15:00

Re: COVID Cycling Distancing [windschatten] [ In reply to ]

Jan 2, 21 14:47

Post #13 of 67 (3012 views)

Where are you at on the road when said individuals/groups pass you? Are you on the shoulder or in the road, and if in the road how far from the white line are you? These could factor into how closely these people are passing you. When I pass people either on the road or a greenway, I give them as much room as I reasonably can. On a road that's 10 feet wide though, if they are riding 2-3 feet from the white line into the lane, then I'm only going to be able to give them about 3-4 feet of space, especially if there's oncoming traffic in the other lane.

Re: COVID Cycling Distancing [windschatten] [ In reply to ]

Jan 2, 21 14:47

Post #14 of 67 (3011 views)

The guy who responded with the fear and staying inside is a snapshot of what is wrong in the US right now.

I don't recall the source, but the risk is extremely small WRT getting infected on a ride due to being outside. It is close, longer exposures that are reportedly the problem.

When I'm passing (which is rare these days), I try to get by fast and limit interaction.

It's a shame we can't respect others risk tolerances. Primarily, higher risk tolerance people need to be respectful of those with a lower tolerance. I come up on more people when running and I always give them space (they are coming towards me, I'm too darn slow to be passing anyone right now)

Re: COVID Cycling Distancing [windschatten] [ In reply to ]

Jan 2, 21 14:48

Post #15 of 67 (3011 views)

windschatten wrote:

echappist wrote:

windschatten wrote:

So this has been gnawing on me and I like to hear from those who are equally annoyed/affected or think it’s an non-issue.

Out riding solo I often have other cyclists overtake me (yes, I am old and slow) unannounced with less than 3 feet of space (group ride style) and then look at me and open mouth breath into my face ( sometimes even talking at me).
I don’t know any of them (those I know do announce), but chances are they are highly educated.
It annoys the hell out of me, both from a general safety perspective and now even more because of the virus.

Not afraid to defend my space on the road or in a pack of equal abilities, but it’s a no go in that situation.
Rarely am I able to pull up my mask in time....and any convo is a higher risk, so I suffer silently.

How do others that feel similarly uncomfortable in times of social distancing deal with this?
.
Already avoiding MUTs and highly popular routes, but won’t give up riding outside.

Have actually seen a guy wearing a handmade ‘COVID! 6ft’ pin-on.
Strap pool noodle to saddle?
Cough loudly?
Ride unsteady?

Can't have one's cake and eat it, unless you go out at really less than busy hours or ride on roads without a lot of cyclists.

Though I mostly ride indoors, it's a risk I'm fine with when I go outside. Surgical mask when on the MUP (though I won't make that mistake again), and hope for the best once I'm out on country roads.

That said, when I do pass others, it's a quick wave; though it has always been like that for the past six years or so.

You consider others on the road (such as bike commuters) wanting to have their cake and eat it?

You even grant them a generous wave when you pass them closely?

OK.
This gets better and better.

I don't know if others are indulging in cakeism as well, as "others" have not told me what they think of it. You, on the other hand, made your own thoughts on this known upthread. You are the one indulging in cakeism. And for the record, any allegation of cakeism gets dropped, as soon as you acquiesce to the notion that riding outdoors during Covid times is not a risk-free activity with respect to catching the virus (at least not right now, when most cannot be vaccinated).

You want to ride outdoors (upthread you mention you "won't give up riding outside") but you are unwilling to accept the inherent (albeit very minuscule risk) that comes with it when someone passes you. Others will be less than courteous on the road; it comes with the territory; some won't change how they ride, no matter what messages you put up. If you can't accept that, that's an internal contradiction no one else could help you resolve.

Last edited by: echappist: Jan 2, 21 14:52

Re: COVID Cycling Distancing [windschatten] [ In reply to ]

Jan 2, 21 14:57

Post #16 of 67 (2993 views)

Riding outdoors requires the assumption of risk. COVID is probably the least among them. Bad pavement, cars, and deer come to mind. A friend ended up in the ICU with traumatic injury after a deer bolted from the woods and leveled her.

Don’t like the risk, don’t ride outside. The rest of us are not responsible for your choices.

I have no issue with people passing or chatting with passers by.

Re: COVID Cycling Distancing [echappist] [ In reply to ]

Jan 2, 21 15:31

Post #17 of 67 (2949 views)

You here advocate pretty much that you won’t make an attempt to be social distancing when encountering someone riding a bike.
In fact, you consider it your right to invade that person’s personal/safe space.
And that when one rides outside, one just signs up for close quarter contact/exposure.
Got it.

Having read the scientific literature on virus aerosolization, no scientific findings support your regurgitated unscientific platitudes.
In fact, they emphasize that it very much depends on the situation, and that every situation is different and largely non predictable. Ranging from high to minimal.
Only harebrained individuals would conclude that being within 1-2 feet of heavy breathing as ‘minimal risk’. Regardless of wind.
Facts just staring right at you (Pun intended)

Sure explains why many of you can’t/won’t social distance or take any social responsibility in these times.

Nothing new, unfortunately.

That thread wasn’t as much fun as the other one....but insightful nevertheless.

.

Last edited by: windschatten: Jan 2, 21 16:18

Re: COVID Cycling Distancing [windschatten] [ In reply to ]

Jan 2, 21 16:47

Post #18 of 67 (2883 views)

Adam Yates was spewing covid19 for three stages of the Giro before he bailed after the Etna stage. Keep on mind he was breathing at other cyclist for 3-5 hrs per day in close quarters. The Giro went on, no one got sick from him on the road that we are aware of.

So that is one example but it really does not matter.

There are risks in riding covid19 got added to the list. It upped the risk of dying by a touch. It is what it is.

If I pass you or anyone on the swim, bike or run, I try to pass wide if it is safe. If I cannot pass wide I pass quickly. i may say hi and if you want to share the risk of a brief chat with a lot of airflow I don't mind as I don't think we will spread this disease based on all the science out there, but if you do not want to reciprocate I will understand and move on.

Also our indoor pools were open for 6 months in a city of 1M 4 swimmers per double lane zero cases of covid19 transmission. I can find out how many sessions there were in this time and tally total covid19 cases for entire city but we will likely see some comforting data.

Re: COVID Cycling Distancing [echappist] [ In reply to ]

Jan 2, 21 16:57

Post #19 of 67 (2876 views)

PSA, not worth engaging windshatten. His forum conduct is something of a mystery to me.

Re: COVID Cycling Distancing [trail] [ In reply to ]

Jan 2, 21 18:13

Post #20 of 67 (2823 views)

trail wrote:

PSA, not worth engaging windshatten. His forum conduct is something of a mystery to me.

You got to just love those little ankle biters.

You turn around to walk away from a discussion that has run its course and they just can’t help it.

Love you too, little one!
<Thump>

Last edited by: windschatten: Jan 2, 21 18:14

Re: COVID Cycling Distancing [Bumble Bee] [ In reply to ]

Jan 2, 21 18:28

Post #21 of 67 (2808 views)

Bumble Bee wrote:

The guy who responded with the fear and staying inside is a snapshot of what is wrong in the US right now.

I don't recall the source, but the risk is extremely small WRT getting infected on a ride due to being outside. It is close, longer exposures that are reportedly the problem.

When I'm passing (which is rare these days), I try to get by fast and limit interaction.

It's a shame we can't respect others risk tolerances. Primarily, higher risk tolerance people need to be respectful of those with a lower tolerance. I come up on more people when running and I always give them space (they are coming towards me, I'm too darn slow to be passing anyone right now)

Sure, people should be as courteous as your are. I try to move as far away from a passerby as is reasonably possible when running as well. And, certainly would while cycling. But, you aren’t going to change people’s thinking in terms of how the act, so, yes, if you aren’t willing to assume that risk, I agree that he should stay indoors. There are other non-Covid related risks on the road too that I wish didn’t exist too. But, I assume those too if I choose to cycle outside.

Re: COVID Cycling Distancing [windschatten] [ In reply to ]

Jan 2, 21 18:44

Post #22 of 67 (2794 views)

You are wayyyyyyyyy overestimating your covid risk in these scenarios. I don’t think expecting everyone to rise to your standards is realistic personally.

Re: COVID Cycling Distancing [windschatten] [ In reply to ]

Jan 2, 21 19:18

Post #23 of 67 (2757 views)

I'm very careful when I'm out in the world, always masked if around others etc. When I started riding outside again, I'd pull up the buff passing others or getting passed.

But since infection is tied to viral load, I think there's very very little risk to get sufficient load passing another and TBH I just get as much room as I can and just pass. Still wear the buff, only use it if i think exposure starts increasing. Unless someone sneezes right in or in front of your face while passing I don't think there is much risk there. Of course, I am not a doc

Re: COVID Cycling Distancing [windschatten] [ In reply to ]

Jan 2, 21 19:40

Post #24 of 67 (2734 views)

Anyone who is healthy enough to pass you on a bike can literally spit in your mouth and youll be fine

Re: COVID Cycling Distancing [windschatten] [ In reply to ]

Jan 2, 21 21:00

Post #25 of 67 (2596 views)

windschatten wrote:

You here advocate pretty much that you won’t make an attempt to be social distancing when encountering someone riding a bike.
In fact, you consider it your right to invade that person’s personal/safe space.
And that when one rides outside, one just signs up for close quarter contact/exposure.
Got it.

Having read the scientific literature on virus aerosolization, no scientific findings support your regurgitated unscientific platitudes.
In fact, they emphasize that it very much depends on the situation, and that every situation is different and largely non predictable. Ranging from high to minimal.
Only harebrained individuals would conclude that being within 1-2 feet of heavy breathing as ‘minimal risk’. Regardless of wind.
Facts just staring right at you (Pun intended)

Sure explains why many of you can’t/won’t social distance or take any social responsibility in these times.

Nothing new, unfortunately.

That thread wasn’t as much fun as the other one....but insightful nevertheless.

.

I said nothing of the sort. Reading comprehension fail on your part. You are building a strawman.

The only times I pass others are are on bike trails and or a la ITT pass. For the former, I'm always masked (and I still don't look back). For the latter, I pass the way I pass someone in an ITT: ramp it up when I'm a good 4-5 bike lengths behind and begin moving to the far left side of the lane (when I'm sure there's no traffic); complete the pass and move back over to the right of the road when I'm 4-5 bike lengths ahead. I'll wave, as a courtesy, as I start to drift rightward again. I don't look behind during this.

But none of this matters and is completely irrelevant to your original dilemma, which is solely a contradiction of your own making.

Last edited by: echappist: Jan 2, 21 21:05

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