yes, defensive i did get. it s difficulte as i have pass many years been a contributor that have been part of the slowtwitch family for a long time. I come here with honesty and no agenda as i dont have any association with TBB....dont need them and have no contact with them for 5 years.

We come and give a honest and sincere opinion on DIRECT experience with brett and TBB. and it s amazing how quickly, people behind there keyboard rip us apart and simply take us for idiot while they dont themself have any first hand knowledge of the situation. your a good exemple of this yourself.

in the end, i really hope brett does the right thing, and that tbb does the right thing, and that brett as for real rehabilitated himself. I m not interested in trail by internet, so i will hold judgement on what i know of him.

what i can only vouch for is, in 2009, brett was working with adult pro athlete only.....no minor in the picture. I do not know if it as changed since.....

.

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Jonathan Caron / Professional Coach / ironman champions / age group world champions
Jonnyo Coaching
Instargram

I'll come back to something I asked earlier in this thread - have you seen a Roman Polanski film? Will you apply the same tests you espouse in 1-3 to actors/directors who have worked with him? Then will you apply the same tests to every aspect of life?

I suspect your answer is "yes" - but will those of us who answer "yes" live it? Or is it just easy in this narrow aspect of our lives to make a statement without actually living it every day in every way?

Yeah, the witch hunt to the periphery is a bit much, in my opinion.

A very fascinating read through the pages and obviously an issue that many are passionate about. I just have a hard time lumping anyone and everyone associated as morally abject.

I saw a couple of his very early ones, but nothing since his arrest. I very much support the attempts to extradite him so he can finish out his prison sentence. And if I cared one-tenth about movies/Hollywood as I do about triathlon, I would have applied the same tests that you mentioned.

But my primary interest is seeing that triathlon is a clean and respectable sport that follows ethical principles; I'm not on a personal mission to track down every convicted child molester who has put themselves in an inappropriate situation in their profession.

But you make a good point about the need to take some very deliberate actions in everyday life when one holds strong opinions on certain topics. Thanks for that reminder.

"yes, defensive i did get. it s difficulte as i have pass many years been a contributor that have been part of the slowtwitch family"

I am sure it is difficult, but you had to know this was a possibility when you agreed to work with Sutton. You felt working with him could be beneficial for you, but you had to know becoming part of these discussions was a real possibility. It was a decision you made, no one forced you to work with Brett and now that people question it you attack them.

"We come and give a honest and sincere opinion on DIRECT experience with brett and TBB. and it s amazing how quickly, people behind there keyboard rip us apart and simply take us for idiot while they dont themself have any first hand knowledge of the situation. your a good exemple of this yourself."

Why do I need to direct knowledge to criticize? Are only congressmen allowed to criticize other congressman? Are only other weathermen allowed to be mad when the weatherman makes an inaccurate forecast? And Jonny, what good is your firsthand knowledge when it is incomplete? There is evidence of Sutton working with juniors going back to 2006. You're a professional athlete and Sutton is a very public figure, these types of discussions go along with that.

"I m not interested in trail by internet, so i will hold judgement on what i know of him."

I'm not interested in trial by Internet either, Brett had a real trial and was found guilty, I'm interested in the consequences of that. Jordan admitted that Brett didn't obey the ban imposed on him by the ITU and he simply left Australia to escape their ban on him coaching.

"what i can only vouch for is, in 2009, brett was working with adult pro athlete only.....no minor in the picture. I do not know if it as changed since..... "

Well the poster above, AlwaysCurious, posted information about Sutton coaching juniors going back to 2006.

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Portside Athletics Blog

so you are comparing this story: On the one hand, Priscilla states that Grant offered to introduce her to Elvis. Being cautious and skeptical of such a claim about his friendship with Presley, she said she would have to ask her parents. On the other hand, Currie Grant described it the other way around. According to his statement, it was Priscilla who asked him to introduce her, as she was curious about meeting Presley.[11]
However, over the next two weeks Grant met with Priscilla's parents and assured them that she would be well chaperoned.[10]
[edit]Life with Elvis[edit]Germany
Elvis and Priscilla met on September 13, 1959,[12] during a party at Elvis' home in Bad Nauheim, Germany, during his stay in the army.[13] Despite her being 14 years old, she made a huge impression on Elvis with her much older appearance.[14] Elvis allegedly regressed to acting like an "awkward, embarrassed" boy-next-door figure in front of her.[14] However, by the end of the evening he had managed to compose himself.[14]
Despite Priscilla's parents being angered by her late return home during that first meeting and insisting that she would never meet Elvis again,[15] his eagerness for another meeting, and his promise never to bring her home late again,[15] led them to relent. They were frequently together until Elvis left Germany in March 1960. After Elvis left Germany, Priscilla was inundated with requests for interviews from media outlets around the world.[16] She received fan mail from Elvis fans, some nice and some not so nice, as well as mail from "lonesome G.I.'s".[16] Convinced she would never see Elvis again, and with rumors of his ongoing relationship with Nancy Sinatra flying around the gossip magazines, Priscilla resigned herself to the fact that her whirlwind romance was over.[16]
[edit]Move to Graceland
After Elvis' return to America, the couple stayed in contact over the phone, though they would not see each other again until the summer of 1962, when Priscilla's parents agreed to let her visit for two weeks.[13][17] Priscilla's parents allowed her to go only if Elvis would pay for a first-class round trip, arrange for her to be chaperoned at all times, and that she write home every day.[16] Elvis agreed to all these demands and Priscilla flew to Los Angeles. Elvis told her that they were going to Las Vegas and, to throw her parents off the scent, he had Priscilla write a postcard for every day they would be gone so that they could be mailed from Los Angeles by a member of his staff.


To a coach, in a position of authority, seducing a minor child? Let's start from how warped that is. You really do not get it.

So you care about triathlon more than children? I thought the bottom line of this whole conversation was whether or not minors were in danger being coached by or being in the presence of Brett Sutton not the reputation of triathlon.

I can see the Roman Polanski analogy. An actor or film worker who chooses to participate in a Polanksi film is not unlike an athlete who is coached by Sutton. A person who purchases a ticket to see a Polanski film is like a person who supports TeamTBB with their wallet.

I would say that Polanski is a rung lower on the ladder of humanity than Sutton. He has avoided the law for years, never admitted responsibility or having done anything wrong. I still remember his Sixty Minutes interview with Mike Wallace when he said "there are 13 year old girls and there are 13 year old girls".

Has Brett Sutton been rehabilitated? I don't know. Some who know him well say yes. Has anyone that reallys know him come forward to say otherwise? I may be willing to give anyone the benefit of the doubt but when children are involved we do not have the luxury of doubt.

One comment about the "trial by Internet" atleast in my involvement in this thread. I'm willing to bet sutton is reformed, and is likely very remorseful. I however feel when you engage in the acts that you did, you *should* forever lose your right to engage/interact/be around children directly in an triathlon/coaching setting with intent and deliberate attention of interacting with kids. That still has occurred with sutton and teamTBB, and not in an "oops there is a child in the room". So I don't think I'm trying to piss on him, discredit him in any manner other than to question his direct interactions he has/had with kids. Now I am getting the company line from teamTBB that it is cool with sutton interacting with kids in that manner only against "direct" coaching. And that is fine but I will question why that is and all I really get is "he is reformed, he isn't a risk". That's great, I would just hope and think just by nature of the crime, you then forfeit your right/chance to work with kids from then on.

So I don't think this is any trial by Internet with any of my comments. All the interactions that are documented are from teamTBB and sutton. I in fact think its been a eye opener to some to see the degree of interactions he is still allowed to do with juniors. Again I'm not saying he needs to live in a cave or run to the hills if an junior is on other side of street. I'm just calling out his continued work with juniors that has him still directly interacting with them. This isn't him talking to junior coaches only. Maybe it's the case as of 2013 but read their own site and he had interactions with juniors in a face to face setting. I would hope/think we all would say "sutton you are a great coach, let's just make sure you aren't around/with juniors in any capacity so that it is best do ALL involved".

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@brooksdoughtie
USAT-L2,Y&J; USAC-L2
http://www.aomultisport.com

Nice job twisting my words.

1. no not an Elvis fan
2. He MET her at a party when she was 14 - the dated (chaperoned) had several years apart then started dating when she was 17 so no
3, consensual sex at age 17 is not statutory rape
4&5 no see above


but your whole premise is flawed. Someone posted the story of their courtship above (meuf I think) it is a totally different situation than the seduction and rape of a child you are coaching.

do you not understand the power relationship? this is not just about age.

I agree. The Elvis comparison makes no sense. It's a total distraction.

I havent gone quiet. I dont need to comment on every post in this thread. Your comments that you find it acceptable that Sutton is allowed to interact with 30 juniors (which follows TeamTBB's stance), speaks for itself. You and TeamTBB and I and others, have all spoken on what they find acceptable actions that Sutton should/shouldnt be allowed. So there is really nothing else to address. You have your allowable line in the sand, I have mine, others have theirs'. It is what it is.

I, as a junior elite coach in the US that interacts with juniors on a daily basis, take this very seriously. So I take it as an obligation that at the end of the day, junior athletes HAVE to be the one's that are looked after. Not a coach's career/ego, not a coaches accomplishments, not an business's bottom line. Junior's and their well being have to be a top priority, and in having that as the #1 objective, I find it simply wrong that a team allows a coach of Sutton's issue to still be able to actively engage with them. You and teamTBB dont feel it's wrong that he's still able to interact with juniors in certain capacities. I'm just thankful that the team I work with and associate with would never drop to that line of acceptance.

ETA: Please note, I'm also not saying anyone is wrong. I simply disagree with you and TeamTBB's acceptance stance. I will gladly take any heat for taking that approach, because the juniors and the parents of those juniors know/trust that I will have their well being a top priority in their training and within the coaching context that I have with them.

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@brooksdoughtie
USAT-L2,Y&J; USAC-L2
http://www.aomultisport.com

As brief as possible. Again, I come at the subject from the view point of someone having been a member of the team, an athlete coached by Brett, someone who is looking at options to remain in the sport of triathlon in some fashion long term, and simply an athlete who wants to see the sport moved forward. I added those last two from my previous posts.

I think that Brett has a lot to offer the sport. I don't think that he should be banned from coaching period. Anyone who has coached multiple world champions, provided insight to many of the most successful coaches now, and has an Olympic gold medalist...like it or not is a legitimate coach. Brooks makes some good points, and it he comes at it mainly from the coaching aspect, so his POV is a very good one to add balance.

Having said that, I think that in light of some of the recent information posted about youth/developmental programs coupled with the replies by team representatives that some tough questions should be asked. Asked by the outlets you mention like sponsors, athletes, media. Slowtwitch is one of the media outlets that provides seemingly more balanced coverage of a wider array of multisport issues. The forum I think is a small slice of the community. So, while this may be a topic near and dear to a lot of people...it might not have a lot of reach, but that doesn't mean it shouldn't be covered.

Now really, I'd just as soon be 'out' on this topic. I just didn't really want to leave this one hanging.

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Brandon Marsh - Website | @BrandonMarshTX | RokaSports | 1stEndurance | ATC Bikeshop |

+1

Ok glad you are fine with him even courting (is that not seduction of a minor?) a 14 year old and also that you have the inside knowledge that nothing ever happened, hell you probably even know what date they had their first sex. Yes I fully understand the power relationship, that is why Elvis, despite other people's comments, was such a good example b ut in actual fact any old man would usually have a power relationship over a 14 year old girl although I do accept the teacher aspect adds to it. You highlight exactly why I asked the Elvis questions, you have double standards but again I respect that at least you answered the questions and I also respect that you have a different opinion from me, that's just life.

I'm not and never have supported what Sutton did, in no way. But in the same way you think it was fine Elvis was courting a 14 year old so long as they were chaperoned (I actually don't on this one) I think it's fine Sutton's coaching being passed onto junior squads and him even being involved in odd sessions. He commited a major crime, was found guilty and did his time. He is doing absolutely nothing illegal and there has never been any hint of recedivism. So do think that someone who steals from a shop should never be allowed back in a shop again? I know that we are talking about a much more serious crime but legally speaking the premise is the same.

I'm going to puke, he met and seduced a 14 year old. We had the same discussion over Sutton that even if she was allegedly the one who came he as the older figure should have soundly rejected those advances. I personally have no disagreement with that whatsoever, Sutton should have roundly locked the girl out from the very start but apparently for you it is ok that Precilla was the one who chased Elvis and he allowed himself to be bewitched by her.

Not even going to both replying to the rest as you make your own position very clear but what you posted that you think it is ok that a relationship of sorts developed between Elvis and a 14 year old girl.

Please see post #269. It will explain a lot about "did his time and now he should be free from criticism/scrutiny" fallacy.

Somehow I feel comfortable sure that Elvis' relationship with Priscilla didn't involve forced fellatio in an underground parking garage. Hmm, I wonder why Sutton didn't tell the girls parents what was going on. Because he was "victimizing" her. Geez.

where is it suggested that he seduced her? that there was ANY coercion?
they met, had chaperoned dates, kept in touch and then YEARS later started seeing each other and married.
sounds like a courtship, not seduction and rape.

contrasted with coach paid to train young swimmer. works with young swimmer.
one night appears in young swimmer's bed and forces himself on her


yeah I see how those could be confused


somehow I will stick with the psych and other MDs on this one.

Nice hijack. 7/10.

Jordan--

Now that the other banned guy is off the front page...can you share what else you've learned about Sutton's continued work with children? Mr. Bok's comments, and subsequent silence, are less than reassuring.

x2 -
before this thread took all sorts of BS turns with questions about elvis or roman polanski, i think some very fair and very important questions had been raised. from outward appearances it looks like the man has continued to work with or try to work with youth since his conviction. that's a concern that i think should be addressed.

-mike

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____________________________________
https://lshtm.academia.edu/MikeCallaghan

http://howtobeswiss.blogspot.ch/

Since this is back on the first page (barely) thought I'd share this.

http://usnews.nbcnews.com/...ers-best-friend?lite

Gosh, I sure hope this guy gets probation and becomes one of the leading softball coaches in the world.

The thing is, it really isnt all that hard to get "confirmation" on any of the info. My guess is that as long as the TeamTBB website has been an active url, they've been acknowledging his activies with juniors. All the info is right there, being provided by TeamTBB, so I just disagree with some views that this is only some odd team pic with an youth or such. It's clear that for TeamTBB as long as he is not actively "coaching" an youth, they are accepting of him being around youth in team capacities. Which if that's their stance, that's their stance, and rightifully allowed, just I think it has raised alot of eye brows with the info that's been detailed in this thread.

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@brooksdoughtie
USAT-L2,Y&J; USAC-L2
http://www.aomultisport.com

I'd be curious where TeamTBB started and has a US junior based program. I couldnt really find any info on their site a few weeks ago, but I remember someone saying they had a program.

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@brooksdoughtie
USAT-L2,Y&J; USAC-L2
http://www.aomultisport.com

Mike, since I asked one of those questions that led to "BS turn" can I ask if you thought the questions were BS or that people responded in ways that led to the "BS turn"? And if so why? Not sure the BS call was necessary to your post so clearly something about those points caused you to react. Sorry if this derails things again. I agree with the fact the questions you mention are very important and should addressed. I'm just not sure it means the questions and posts of others are invalid.
MDD