Off the top of my head:

Championship Swim Training by Sweetenham and Atkinson
Swimming Fastest by Maglischo

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Brian Stover USAT LII
Accelerate3 Coaching
Insta

When you say "age group swimmers" you're talking about kids who are pure swimmers? Or age group triathletes (adults). Or both?

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Swimming Workout of the Day:

Favourite Swim Sets:

2020 National Masters Champion - M50-54 - 50m Butterfly

@desert_dude - have you red those books? They are on my "to buy" list. Especially first one, but don't know if they are addressed to "standard AG" or rather full time swimmer.

@JasoninHalifax - mostly about adult triathletes from intermediate to advanced lvl with limited time to train (say 2-4 workouts/week).

K, thanks. That's an important distinction, I think. Triathletes with limited pool time should (IMO) have substantially less variability in their macro-cycles than pure swimmers will, simply as a function of how many hours they are in the water.

Both of those books are primarily directed at pure swimmers. Definitely worth reading though (I've read both, albeit a long time ago).

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Swimming Workout of the Day:

Favourite Swim Sets:

2020 National Masters Champion - M50-54 - 50m Butterfly

Honestly, as an AGer who has limited swim time, you actually may be better off by just sticking to the real basics, meaning just read/watch basic online youtube swim basics videos, and just 'swim more, harder.'

I read a bunch of the Maglischo and other swim books, and while the quality is very good, you'll be wasting your time as a AGer worrying about the finest details that they get into, rather than just swim more, harder.

I only say this because that really is the utmost, cure-all, #1-10 focus of the AGer triathlete. I'm finding you can do literally almost anything you want in the water and improve as an AG swimmer, as long as you're swimming more, and harder, incrementally.

There's this myth that AGers are slow because they train terribly in the pool, need coaching to fix their form before they work harder, need to watch more swim-expert videos to model their form, and very little of this is true. The reason AGers are slow is because they don't swim enough, and don't swim hard enough, PERIOD.

Put it this way - I can swim 1:30/100 for 3000 now no problemo, and if I intentionally do tons of things wrong - drop legs, cross the midline, over-roll, all the stuff beginners do but MORE, I'll drop at worst to 1:40/100. Def not slower than that. ANd that's with some really ugly form, like uglier than beginners. The exact same deal will be with the fast swim studs doing 1:10 and below - they'll drop at MOST 10sec/100 if you tell them to mess up their form, or even mess it up on purpose with weirdo things like chicken arming one arm behind their back.

And furthermore, all of those weirdo swim forms are easily fixed with if you're up at 15k/wk or more, because you're developing such a good feel for the water that you'll be able to move things around as needed.

At this point, I know someone will scream, "well, that's not true because I see these swimmers at the pool for years swimming all the time and they have ugly form, are slow, and never improve!" To that, I can guarantee zero of these swimmers are swimming 15k/wk+, and are almost certainly NOT swimming hard or even extremely hard for intervals, and likely are the typical non-racing YMCA adult swimmer that is very happy with just doing relaxed laps for an hour. Doing relaxed laps for an hour only gets you faster to a point, and it's not that fast. Unfortunately, that's what most adult onset triathletes consider 'high swim competence.'

Swim more, harder, repeat. Watch some youtube videos, keep those basics in mind as you keep working hard. When you're swimming as fast as JasoninHalifax, PM him more tips at that point since you'll have earned it!

Well, he's looking at finding something for season planning, not from a "finer points of technique" perspective.

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Swimming Workout of the Day:

Favourite Swim Sets:

2020 National Masters Champion - M50-54 - 50m Butterfly

Ok so maybe i'll put my problem the other way. Let's take person like me. I struggled swimming for a long time and hit my plateau 8 minutes per 400m. Then have red the internet to the last page and created simple stupid swim program... that works wonders (for me). Basically i swim 3 times/week.
- threshold session 2k with main set 1400m on CSS speed (i.e. 14x100 p.10")
- speed / technique session 2k mostly with fast 50m/100m intervals + basic drills
- long swim 4k session with slow to moderate pace + lots of butterfly or medley

In ~3 months went from 8 to 7 minutes per 400m. Now wonder if I should keep repeating this schema or add some sort of periodization. Say work more with equipment in winter (like paddles for strength) or maybe work more on technique etc. If work on technique - which drill's are "safe" for self-coaching etc. Of course none book covers all this topics, but looking for sth to start with. Basically good books for people like me.

What I know - i'm not a swimmer, and shouldn't copy programs for swimmers. As i have no coach I must keep it simple, and avoid difficult drill's, sophisticated programs etc. But on the other hand it is good to know basic rules for creating successful programs.

I second Lightheir's comment.

I feel as if a lot of triathlon swimming coaching deals are just taking advantage of one's belief that they have "potential" that they have the fitness to swim super fast because of how fast they can run or ride, and with a few technique changes they'll be able to swim just as fast in a week. Which is BS. But does sell decently well.

A few months ago I bought Friel's book - "Your Best Triathlon", which is basically a training plan derived from the Triathletes Training Bible. Now, I'm not following it directly yet, but over the next couple of months as I build up my bike and run to Muncie 70.3 I'll be following it a bit more closely.

I'm not following the swim stuff at all, but what's in there seems pretty good. However, I'm a simple guy, I like simple and keeping a routine is more important for me than trying to play around with periodization too much. You simply aren't doing enough volume in the pool for periodization to matter much.

So for YOU, here's what I'd change if you have the time

bump up your 2k swims to 3k,

warm up longer. My favourite warmup is 400 swim, 300 pull, 200 kick (fins optional), 100 drill. followed by 8 x 25 sprinters game*

on the "threshold day" play around with longer repeats with a little more rest.

put a bit of speedwork at the end of the threshold day (eg 12 x 25 every 3rd fast)

scrap the "long easy swim". Do some descending / build 50s, 75's or 100's with a moderate amount of rest.

Every so often, test where you're at with a flat out 400 or even better, 1000

Drills that you can't screw up - sculling, doggy paddle (seriously, work on gettting good reach and arms straight out in front, good catch, all that stuff), and since you are a triathlete, Tarzan drills.

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Swimming Workout of the Day:

Favourite Swim Sets:

2020 National Masters Champion - M50-54 - 50m Butterfly

lightheir - this is what I discovered, and definitely agree with :-) I used to do tons of drills, watch tons of vids on technique. Now a have 2x45' and 1x90' stupid simple workout while I swim hard (form me). At the moment I do only scull drill and maybe catch up drill during warmup. It's good way. This is my example threshold workout for ~50 minutes (i'm really limited on time during week days): http://storage9.static.itmages.com/...99379_9a8215ff89.png


What I wonder now is if I should keep repeating this schema (1 long swim, 1 threshold swim, 1 speed swim) or add some accents - say make more endurance workouts during winter, and shift to more sprints during race season etc.

I'll even simplify even more -

It almost doesnt even matter what you do within your workout as an AGer, as long as you do MORE and HARDER.

I spent 3 years swimming getting hammered it into me from all the swim studs that said "3000 straight is a waste of time!", and "No intervals longer than 400!", and "Gotta incorporate kicking into your workouts", etc.

I've found all of that 100% false as an AGer who has improved a LOT.

3000 straight is an awesome workout. There is absolutely, nothing wrong with it. You can do that every day, day in, day out, 7 days a week, and crush your AG by doing this workout alone, no joke (I doubt you'd be able to handle this training load - see bike FTP comment later). But remember, you gotta do MORE and HARDER. So you're not just lollygagging on a 3000 straight - you're doing it on a fairly tough pace that should have you in pain by the end, just like you'd do a 1 hr FTP workout. Does anyone else think doing 1 hr FTP workouts on a regular basis is NOT a hard training stimulus for endurance biking? I've reincorporate these 3000 straight intervals and time every 200 or 400 split, so I'm right on the clock.

If anything, I think these are a LOT more honest for an AGer than the 10 x 200 standard recommended workout or 20 x 100 - for the main reason that the recurring question is "how much rest between the 100s/200s?" If you're doing 3000 straight, there is no rest - eyeball your split when you touch the wall, and you're off. Honestly, I think a HUGE part of AGers underperforming the swim is not realizing how much harder it is to swim without rest compared to rest-broken intervals, even if they are 5-10sec/rest.

Remember, us AGers aren't trying to out-touch the next lane swimmer in a 100m sprint by <1 second - we're just trying not to get gapped in a HIM swim by 6 minutes or in an IM swim by 12 minutes, if not more. Just gotta swim more, harder for that.

FWIW, I've tried tons of permutations for swim improvements, and I do still believe variety is important and good for swimming, but for sure, variety in workout has minimal impact on my swim improvement if volume/intensity stays the same, whereas improvements are steady and strong if I'm amping up overall volume/intensity (swim TSS) as an AGer. Obviously, if you're a ex-collegiate swimmer and able to drop 25k+/wk as a triathlete, don't listen to me as you're well past we AGers are, and again, PM JasoninHalifax for tips to get from the FFOP into the FFFFOP.

Unfortunately at the moment I can swim only 45 minutes during work days - i know it's not much, but pool where I swim has tickets for 45 minutes, and I can swim only on last entrance on 10pm. I do one longer session on Sunday. That wont change these year (1 kid + 1 infant = no time to workouts ;-) ).

It's seems I do everything you write JasoninHalifax - simple sessions with high density, only simple drills, testing every 4-6 weeks (400m+200m TT to get CSS) etc. You convinced me that periodization is not for me. I'll try to swim this way and see when encounter next plateau.

I'm with you on the time-limited thing. toddler + job and the pool is too far to get there at lunch means I'm down to 2 hrs swimming per week with my masters squad. I'm typically getting on the bike at 10pm. Which completely sucks. At least I can run at lunch (usually, not this week though thanks to year-end).

I had a look at the workout you posted, and I think one tweak you can make is reduce your cooldown. You don't need 300 easy at the end (I mean, you can if you want, but I'd rather shift that time into the main set). Hell, my warmdown swim is usually around 100 walk-and-talk, holding a kickboard so I can pretend to be kicking if coach looks over. Just do that up and down the lane with another teammate or 3.

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Swimming Workout of the Day:

Favourite Swim Sets:

2020 National Masters Champion - M50-54 - 50m Butterfly

@lightheir - i feel mostly the same. If you have 3-4 sessions per week then each one must be challenging in some way (distance, speed etc). For now I believe, that variety is important (don't think doing all the time the same workout would be good), but can't prove it. Maybe some day I'll get to the same point, as you did. For now even removing drill's from my workouts was BIG THING, and my workouts gets simpler and simpler every day ;-)
If I could point out only one lie I read about swimming in the past, it would be "don't swim hard/long sets because it is bad for your technique" - totally opposite is true - IMO on AG lvl hard and long sets are better for technique than any drill.

What I think is, that former swimmers try to use the same techniques to teach, as their coaches used to teach them. But as you said - when you reduce volume from 40km/week to 5-9km then you need to change methods. The whole thing is to find those 20% of work that gives 60-80% of results.


@JasoninHalifax - they will grow up some day... hopefully ;-)
Thx for advice on reducing cool down.

Yes I have read those book and numerous others on swimming plus I was a year round swim coach. I've probably forgotten more about swimming than most triathletes will ever know. One of those books is the most referenced book I have out of 45-60 books on coaching, training, sport methodology etc.

From what I've seen, and ST is a great place to see this, is most triathletes have a horrible grasp on season planning. Championship Swim training lays things out and if you read a few other books and can piece some things together you're ahead of the curve with how to lay out a season.

The other problem is most triathletes see that (iirc anyway) Championship Swim Training recommends 30-50k/wk. Most can't figure out how to scale that towards them. Granted this happens as well when some pro posts their B or R workouts and some dumb AG athlete goes out and tries to do 20 x 800 one day when their normal run week is 25 miles. Although I guess that's job security. On second thought don't go read any books.

Your question about what you should do, """I should keep repeating this schema or add some sort of periodization""" Is the #1 reason you should read the first book recommended and others. You lack a grasp, as do most triathletes, on what to do to improve and how to structure things for the long term.

most triathletes hop from one "great" idea or method to the next without the ability to step back and think how does this fit into the big picture, where does this fit into the big picture based upon my goals, what I want to do, where are my most important races in the season etc.

Now if you're doing it for fun and fitness then it probably doesn't matter if you bother answering any of those questions or even read a book. If you are serious about improving then understanding the why and how improvement works and how to structure/change things/ move things around vs leaping from cool sounding training method from this coach or that pro can make a huge difference in your finishing times.

I choose to learn about this stuff since I can't remember the last time an athlete approached me for coaching and said "I want to just go out, train with friends all the time & get across the finish line without suffering too much, can you help?"

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Brian Stover USAT LII
Accelerate3 Coaching
Insta

Just one minor point, I do think that "some" periodization is possible on such a limited volume. When you're coming back from a break, take more time to do sculling and drills as compared to when you are getting closer to race season, when you generally want to be getting more specific with the training. That doesn't mean that pre-season / early season training is all easy technique work, just a minor shift. So you might do 1200y for your main set at the beginning of the year, with more sculling and "gasp" even some kicking thrown in, and late in the year the main set might be 1800

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Swimming Workout of the Day:

Favourite Swim Sets:

2020 National Masters Champion - M50-54 - 50m Butterfly

One real challenge with reading those outstanding books for periodization tips, however, is that you have to integrate the swim integration with your run/bike training, which isn't trivial. Especially when you can't remotely hit the big swim volumes those books often are based on.

Swim periodization is def good stuff, but it's not so good if you're compromising 5 minutes on race day on bike+run to gain back 1 minute on the swim.

But hey, that's a big reason why good coaches are still worth paying for if you are so inclined!

[quote]however, is that you have to integrate the swim integration with your run/bike training, which isn't trivial. [/quote]

With a little bit of understanding about periodization on swimming it's an easy carry over to B/R training as well.

With a bit of periodization why do you think people would compromise 5 min B/R to gain 1min on the S?

If anything you could gain 1-3 min on the S and 7-10 min on the B/R if you do it right. Even if you do some of it wrong you're probably still ahead of your non periodization self.

You're right though that most triathletes don't know how to scale things or put the pieces together. It seems that a lot of people have trouble grasping the big season goal then breaking that down into what do I do x or xx weeks away and how should that change as it gets closer

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Brian Stover USAT LII
Accelerate3 Coaching
Insta

I would LOVE to gain 1 min on the swim and 7min on B/R just by periodizing and otherwise maintaining my exact same workout load!

I doubt it's possible though...I don't just train steady through the season, and I do sharpen and get more race-specific as race day approaches. In terms of swimming, it means I do more of the race-pace 1500s straight closer to race day ,and more diverse speed or longer (3000) stuff earlier on.

I'd also love to hire a coach who could surefire do this for me ,but I guess that's my point - I can't pull that kind of speed gain off using my own book knowledge!

In addition to books, I would also suggest at least trying to search out some local "real" swim coaches and pick their brains a bit. The number of knowledgeable swim coaches in the US is huge (there are well over 300,000 kids involved in competitive swimming in the US and virtually every single one of them is being trained by paid coaching staffs - swimming is not T ball with parent volunteers). Not every coach is producing Olympians but the number of swim coaches who have the knowledge and experience to improve your average triathlete's swimming is in the thousands. Any decent sized town will have several. A big city will have a couple hundred.

In any event, you actually don't need the knowledge of the guy coaching Olympians or the local high school power house. You just need to know how the rank and file coach takes 8 year olds and turn them into decent 12 year olds.

You can also pick the brains of some of the local real age group swimmers (a/k/a kids). The fast teenagers might not fully understand the intricacies of what their coaches are doing but they will be articulate enough to give you more details than you want of their training and frankly, some of them have a fairly decent knowledge of sports physiology if they have been well coached (better than your average triathlete). Some of the older ones may actually be coaching as assistants on summer league teams.

Also masters coaches, local masters swimmers (particularly ones who are ex-collegiate distance swimmers) can be great sources of free info. If you were in our area, I'd say just come out and join us one night at practice and then head out to the pool-to-pub after practice. One thing about masters swimmers is that a lot of us are more than happy to talk about swimming. Teenagers can be hit or miss.....

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Swimming Workout of the Day:

Favourite Swim Sets:

2020 National Masters Champion - M50-54 - 50m Butterfly

But question arise - where to find knowledge, that can be applied to AG triathlete. I'll give a try Championship Swim Training, but i'll never have time for 30-50km/week - must be realistic and hope for 10-15km in coming seasons. In 2018 I have only time for 7-9km/week ;-(

@STP / JasoninHalifax - as you can see from my posts English is not my native language. I come from Poland, and to be honest, we don't have many skilled coaches here plus have no time for master squad at the moment (I attended one in the past, but can't fit it to my schedule at the moment).

I couldn't tell, your English is better than a lot of native English speakers

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Swimming Workout of the Day:

Favourite Swim Sets:

2020 National Masters Champion - M50-54 - 50m Butterfly

I would suggest having a look at Swim Smooths site and book (and videos)

http://www.swimsmooth.com/