Bike cadence question

Sep 18, 18 3:56

Post #1 of 15 (2159 views)

Over the past year, I have been working on increasing my FTP using a higher cadence (95-100). By the end of the ride, my legs are pretty tired. My past two rides (TR) have included low cadence power work and I found my legs to be less fatigued once I finish.

I’ve got an international distance coming up on the 29th and am considering trying a different strategy. This includes dividing the bike into three sections. The first will be high cadence, second third will be 80-85 and the final will be high again. I like the way I’ve been running off the bike so I don’t want to change too much but really want to improve my bike split. The first third at high cadence will be to get the blood flowing, the second third will be for power output and the third will be to loosen my legs up and get ready to run with a high turnover

Anyone have success intentionally varying cadence throughout the course of a race? Obviously the course will dictate part of this but I think I may give it a shot. For the record, I’m an experienced competitor but have focused on long course until this year (which has been to survive) and sprints this year (increasing power through high cadence).

Team Zoot

Re: Bike cadence question [jeepguy2358] [ In reply to ]

Sep 18, 18 3:59

Post #2 of 15 (2149 views)

So, there is a search function on the forum.

You'll find many discussions on the matter.

Summary: red herring

Re: Bike cadence question [Francois] [ In reply to ]

Sep 18, 18 5:08

Post #3 of 15 (2086 views)

Francois wrote:

So, there is a search function on the forum.

You'll find many discussions on the matter.

Summary: red herring

Probably. But it can be a motivator for training. My feeling is that training a variety of cadences is useful(not essential) but racing just going for power or heart rate (or both) is better.
The cadences that get you to the fastest are best and our variety is so great from person to person or even from distance/power it's hard to prescribe an "ideal" cadence.

Re: Bike cadence question [jeepguy2358] [ In reply to ]

Sep 18, 18 5:22

Post #4 of 15 (2059 views)

There are lots of discussions regarding the cadence issue. Some have tried to apply the 90-95 Lance Armstrong number, which is really apples and oranges because you don't have to run afterwards and others say low cadence. My coach told me a few years ago that training at a variety of cadences is good so you can do it during the race if you need to but generally what feels most comfortable over the distance is what you should do. Brett Sutton is a proponent of lower cadences for triathletes in general (low 80's) but said in article I read that he had a few athletes who were in the high 90's. See how your long rides go and what leaves you most fresh and then just go with that. If your body doesn't it like the higher cadence just train for it so you can do it for short periods of time where needed and then go back to your regular cadence. You may need to also do some higher cadences just to the muscles differently so to speak.
Good luck!!

"see the world as it is not as you want it to be"

Re: Bike cadence question [TizzleDK] [ In reply to ]

Sep 18, 18 5:36

Post #5 of 15 (2044 views)

TizzleDK wrote:

There are lots of discussions regarding the cadence issue. Some have tried to apply the 90-95 Lance Armstrong number, which is really apples and oranges because you don't have to run afterwards and others say low cadence. My coach told me a few years ago that training at a variety of cadences is good so you can do it during the race if you need to but generally what feels most comfortable over the distance is what you should do. Brett Sutton is a proponent of lower cadences for triathletes in general (low 80's) but said in article I read that he had a few athletes who were in the high 90's. See how your long rides go and what leaves you most fresh and then just go with that. If your body doesn't it like the higher cadence just train for it so you can do it for short periods of time where needed and then go back to your regular cadence. You may need to also do some higher cadences just to the muscles differently so to speak.
Good luck!!

Low 70s. Not low 80s.

Low 80s is not 'low'

Re: Bike cadence question [jeepguy2358] [ In reply to ]

Sep 18, 18 5:38

Post #6 of 15 (2044 views)

jeepguy2358 wrote:

Over the past year, I have been working on increasing my FTP using a higher cadence (95-100). By the end of the ride, my legs are pretty tired. My past two rides (TR) have included low cadence power work and I found my legs to be less fatigued once I finish.

I’ve got an international distance coming up on the 29th and am considering trying a different strategy. This includes dividing the bike into three sections. The first will be high cadence, second third will be 80-85 and the final will be high again. I like the way I’ve been running off the bike so I don’t want to change too much but really want to improve my bike split. The first third at high cadence will be to get the blood flowing, the second third will be for power output and the third will be to loosen my legs up and get ready to run with a high turnover

Anyone have success intentionally varying cadence throughout the course of a race? Obviously the course will dictate part of this but I think I may give it a shot. For the record, I’m an experienced competitor but have focused on long course until this year (which has been to survive) and sprints this year (increasing power through high cadence).

I used to be of the opinion of a cadence of 90+. My reasons were it seemed to avoid straining my lower back and was closer to what I thought was a natural running like cadence where the work load was broken down into smaller pieces.

Having moved to Florida, where there are few hills, some riders taught me to put it in a big gear and tool around around at 50-70 RPM for a change. One competitive cyclist that I know well is of the opinion that doing both during a race creates an advantage for him.

Surprisingly, my body adapted and I could get the same FTP at a low cadence or a high cadence. Now if one or the other cadence starts getting a higher/lower FTP I adjust volume of the training cadence to seek a level FTP between the two.

When I came back to N GA for a week, I could ride the hills much better than I thought I would and was happy that my NP was the same as prior to living in FL for the last 9 months.

Average cadence over a 1-2 hour ride has been about 80 whereas I used to have a goal of 90+.

Indoor Triathlete - I thought I was right, until I realized I was wrong.

Re: Bike cadence question [jeepguy2358] [ In reply to ]

Sep 18, 18 5:41

Post #7 of 15 (2040 views)

Do an Internet search of the cadences used for all the Hour records.

----------------------------------
"Go yell at an M&M"

Re: Bike cadence question [jeepguy2358] [ In reply to ]

Sep 18, 18 7:35

Post #8 of 15 (1953 views)

The issue is not which cadence is optimal it's which cadence is less sub-optimal and still allows you to be able to run half-decent off the bike. I'm notoriously a masher, lock into a monster gear, and chug out at 65-75 RPM... but I also know that I have better success running off the bike if I back off the gear a bit more, and churn at a higher cadence. So in general I try to tap out a higher cadence in Du or tri races. For cycling events, I tend to vary cadences a lot while riding in a pack, for TT's, I tend to focus on high cadence on the front half to keep the legs fresher, and then drop the hammer on the back half, where I might drop cadence by 10-15rpm, and start pushing a bigger gear...
GTN did a video on closely matching your bike cadence to your run cadence off the bike. It was fairly pseudo-scientific in the design of their "experiment" (as it usually is, when they do such "experiments"), but they showed some interesting anecdotal evidence...

Re: Bike cadence question [klehner] [ In reply to ]

Sep 18, 18 7:47

Post #9 of 15 (1937 views)

klehner wrote:

Do an Internet search of the cadences used for all the Hour records.

Even better, do an internet search for the crank torque used for all the Hour records.

Re: Bike cadence question [jeepguy2358] [ In reply to ]

Sep 18, 18 7:56

Post #10 of 15 (1924 views)

Higher cadence is easier on the legs, so you should do it a lot in training so it's easy to pull off. But you'll also need to do lower cadence on occasion in a race, so you'll need to train that some too. And lower cadence is a good "set" for increasing power. So basically high cadence most of the time, but mix in low cadence because not doing it some would be stupid.

Re: Bike cadence question [jeepguy2358] [ In reply to ]

Sep 19, 18 8:49

Post #11 of 15 (1753 views)

Varying cadence in training is very effective, but the course terrain should dictate race strategy.
I do agree with upping the cadence if you can towards the end to loosen the legs up for T2.

Ryan
http://www.SetThePaceTriathlon.com
http://www.TriathlonTrainingDaddy.com
I got plans - https://www.trainingpeaks.com/...dotcom#trainingplans

Re: Bike cadence question [jeepguy2358] [ In reply to ]

Sep 21, 18 17:07

Post #12 of 15 (1546 views)

This was a race specific question, not a general cadence question and a search did not produce any results that answered my question. That’s why I asked.

The other reason for asking is because at the end of a trainer workout with high cadence, my legs feel like jello. When I mash, my legs don’t feel as fatigued. I say that but haven’t run immediately after. That’s why I was thinking of potentially trying to mash in the middle but spin at the beginning and end of the race. Again, obviously the course may cause me to abandon this plan but I think I may give it a shot on race day. In my five races this year, I’ve had strong runs off the bike with a high cadence but wonder if I may be leaving a little out there on the bike.

Team Zoot

Re: Bike cadence question [ZenTriBrett] [ In reply to ]

Sep 22, 18 3:58

Post #13 of 15 (1411 views)

ZenTriBrett wrote:

Higher cadence is easier on the legs, so you should do it a lot in training so it's easy to pull off. But you'll also need to do lower cadence on occasion in a race, so you'll need to train that some too. And lower cadence is a good "set" for increasing power. So basically high cadence most of the time, but mix in low cadence because not doing it some would be stupid.

Don't disagree with you. Sometimes a higher cadence can mean more friction in your shorts that could rub one the wrong way.

So besides a good pair of shorts and cream, a varied cadence and some out of the saddle riding changes/reduces the friction a little bit.

Doesn't help coming off the bike chafed and butt hurt.

Indoor Triathlete - I thought I was right, until I realized I was wrong.

Re: Bike cadence question [RChung] [ In reply to ]

Sep 22, 18 8:25

Post #14 of 15 (1327 views)

RChung wrote:

klehner wrote:

Do an Internet search of the cadences used for all the Hour records.

Even better, do an internet search for the crank torque used for all the Hour records.

I didn't find anything particularly interesting. But perhaps I'm using the wrong search terms or wrong search method? Could you elaborate? (though I know your trademark is the cryptic one-liner. If someone had access to all the torque data from the recent hour records and published an analysis, that would be really interesting. I just wasn't aware that someone was able to get access to a lot of that data, which is sometimes closely held.

Re: Bike cadence question [trail] [ In reply to ]

Sep 22, 18 11:17

Post #15 of 15 (1269 views)

trail wrote:

RChung wrote:

klehner wrote:

Do an Internet search of the cadences used for all the Hour records.

Even better, do an internet search for the crank torque used for all the Hour records.

I didn't find anything particularly interesting. But perhaps I'm using the wrong search terms or wrong search method? Could you elaborate? (though I know your trademark is the cryptic one-liner. If someone had access to all the torque data from the recent hour records and published an analysis, that would be really interesting. I just wasn't aware that someone was able to get access to a lot of that data, which is sometimes closely held.

I tend to think it was the cryptic-one liner that was offered up as a bit of humor. And probably not exactly what the OP wanted as the OP later wrote that the cadence as it relates to running after the bike is important to them.

Was think about this in FL where I'm trying to work with any kind of rise in the road to change my cadence for a break from the monotony. Actually doing the opposite of what I do on real hills. If the rise is just 1-3%, I now prefer to shift into a bigger gear for a lower lower cadence to get the watts between 200-300 and cadence lower than 80. Tooling around between 90-100 cadence was getting pretty old. Cardio vascular fitness was fine. Power was diminishing over time.

Indoor Triathlete - I thought I was right, until I realized I was wrong.

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