Better sleep but less rested with Melatonin?

Aug 21, 19 7:20

Post #1 of 39 (9779 views)

I know this isn't a medical forum but wanted to see if others have experienced anything similar. I often struggle with falling asleep and I would more often than not wake up 3-4 times every night to pee. For the past month or so I've been taking 2 Melatonin about 90 minutes before bed, and I've been sleeping way more consistently. I'm falling asleep in probably 1/3 the time and only waking up 1 or 2 times to pee. Probably getting a solid 7.5-8 hours every night. However I am also just not feeling any better rested during the day. For the past few weeks I've still needed a 30 min or hour long nap. Obviously this could have something to do with my training volume which is up a little bit recently but is still fairly controlled around 16-19 hours a week.

Is the Melatonin actually affecting how rested I feel or are there probably other factors in play? Have others had luck reducing reliance on Melatonin in favor of something like non-THC CBD oil or something similar?

Benjamin Deal - Professional - Instagram - TriRig - Lodi Cyclery
Deals on Wheels - Results, schedule, videos, sponsors

Re: Better sleep but less rested with Melatonin? [realbdeal] [ In reply to ]

Aug 21, 19 7:28

Post #2 of 39 (9751 views)

I've taken it a couple times recently and I would have extremely lucid dreams. I did enjoy that part, but I felt the same as you - not as well rested on it however much I was knocked out. I really like cbd oil, but haven't really used it to sleep. I tend to not have a big deal with that, but it could help you relax more before you wind down.

Did you read Cody Beals race report? He mentioned he stopped trying to be on as hardcore a schedule with sleeping and training. Maybe that would be beneficial to you if you are trying to force yourself to sleep to get some early workouts in?

Use this link to save $5 off your USAT membership renewal:
https://membership.usatriathlon.org/...A2-BAD7-6137B629D9B7

Re: Better sleep but less rested with Melatonin? [realbdeal] [ In reply to ]

Aug 21, 19 7:30

Post #3 of 39 (9742 views)

I’m not a good sleeper and melatonin doesn’t work for me. OTOH, CBD has made a huge difference in both falling asleep and going back to sleep if I wake up during night.

Re: Better sleep but less rested with Melatonin? [realbdeal] [ In reply to ]

Aug 21, 19 7:33

Post #4 of 39 (9737 views)

I've tried both melatonin and CBD and had little success with both. When I really need a deep sleep I use foam earplugs (i.e. Mack's); for some reason it help me go down quick and keeps me down.

Also I know you are probably aware of this, but are you cutting out your screen time 30 mins - 1 hour before bed? I find that helps, as well as reading a book (physical books) for 20-30 minutes in bed

the world's still turning? >>>>>>> the world's still turning

Re: Better sleep but less rested with Melatonin? [realbdeal] [ In reply to ]

Aug 21, 19 7:34

Post #5 of 39 (9729 views)

How many mg are two of your pills? You could try reducing the amount as a first step. I don't believe there is an established dose, but most packages I've seen only have you take one pill - the dose per pill can vary dramatically (e.g., 1mg vs 10mg). The higher the dose I've taken the groggier I've still felt in the morning.

Edit: good sleep hygiene is also the baseline I'd start with (no screens, phone out of the room, cooler room temp, white noise machine, dark w/ simulated sunrise alarm clock) and then go from there with adding melatonin/CBD.

Last edited by: andrewjshults: Aug 21, 19 7:38

Re: Better sleep but less rested with Melatonin? [AlyraD] [ In reply to ]

Aug 21, 19 7:34

Post #6 of 39 (9729 views)

AlyraD wrote:

I've taken it a couple times recently and I would have extremely lucid dreams. I did enjoy that part, but I felt the same as you - not as well rested on it however much I was knocked out. I really like cbd oil, but haven't really used it to sleep. I tend to not have a big deal with that, but it could help you relax more before you wind down.

Did you read Cody Beals race report? He mentioned he stopped trying to be on as hardcore a schedule with sleeping and training. Maybe that would be beneficial to you if you are trying to force yourself to sleep to get some early workouts in?

I did read his report and I also saw a post from him a little while ago about how he uses Melatonin the night before a race to ensure he gets some sleep which is actually part of what convinced me to give it a try. My schedule is actually very loose and I'm rarely working out before 9 despite waking up around 7. I mostly just try to be ready to sleep by 10 because that's when my wife needs to go to sleep so we're able to keep the same schedules. In college I would usually go to sleep around 3-4am every night and was usually doing my 2nd workout around 10 or 11pm, but that's a lot easier in NYC than most other places...

Also I definitely get the more lucid dreams as well, though the past few nights they've been rather dark and not quite as enjoyable. Which CBD do you use?

Benjamin Deal - Professional - Instagram - TriRig - Lodi Cyclery
Deals on Wheels - Results, schedule, videos, sponsors

Re: Better sleep but less rested with Melatonin? [Carl Spackler] [ In reply to ]

Aug 21, 19 7:35

Post #7 of 39 (9722 views)

Carl Spackler wrote:

I’m not a good sleeper and melatonin doesn’t work for me. OTOH, CBD has made a huge difference in both falling asleep and going back to sleep if I wake up during night.

+1 for CBD. Which do you use specifically?

Benjamin Deal - Professional - Instagram - TriRig - Lodi Cyclery
Deals on Wheels - Results, schedule, videos, sponsors

Re: Better sleep but less rested with Melatonin? [andrewjshults] [ In reply to ]

Aug 21, 19 7:37

Post #8 of 39 (9713 views)

andrewjshults wrote:

How many mg are two of your pills? You could try reducing the amount as a first step. I don't believe there is an established dose, but most packages I've seen only have you take one pill - the dose per pill can vary dramatically (e.g., 1mg vs 10mg). The higher the dose I've taken the groggier I've still felt in the morning.

3mg of Melatonin per pill. I did do a bunch of research on discrepancies between different pills which is a bit concerning but I read good reviews on the type I use (NatureMade).

Benjamin Deal - Professional - Instagram - TriRig - Lodi Cyclery
Deals on Wheels - Results, schedule, videos, sponsors

Re: Better sleep but less rested with Melatonin? [realbdeal] [ In reply to ]

Aug 21, 19 7:41

Post #9 of 39 (9697 views)

It was actually from a place we have in Raleigh called the Hemp Farmacy (https://hempfarmacy.us/). I would buy the caramels so I'm not positive how made them as they were unlabeled, but I actually had the most relaxation in my muscles from the full spectrum honey from Colorado hemp honey. Tried the gummy versions and didn't get anything out of them.

The caramels were 50mg I think

Use this link to save $5 off your USAT membership renewal:
https://membership.usatriathlon.org/...A2-BAD7-6137B629D9B7

Re: Better sleep but less rested with Melatonin? [realbdeal] [ In reply to ]

Aug 21, 19 7:44

Post #10 of 39 (9686 views)

Yeah - I'd try cutting to one 3mg pill. The safe dosage on melatonin is pretty high, but a number of sources seem to indicate that above 5mg people start to experience the side effects you are mentioning.

https://www.sleep.org/...h-melatonin-to-take/

https://www.drugs.com/melatonin.html

Quote:

Effective starting doses for jet lag range from 0.3 to 0.5 mg. One milligram tablets can be cut in half to achieve a 0.5 mg dose if smaller doses are not available for purchase. Lower doses may work for some people, while others may need a higher dose, up to 3 to 5 mg. However, higher doses may be associated with more side effects such as headache, next day grogginess, or vivid dreams.

Always start with the lowest dose. According to a Cochrane review, doses over 5 mg appear to be no more effective than lower doses. It is important to note that much higher doses are available for sale in the U.S., but these doses may result in excessively high levels of physiologic melatonin.

Re: Better sleep but less rested with Melatonin? [realbdeal] [ In reply to ]

Aug 21, 19 8:42

Post #11 of 39 (9558 views)

realbdeal wrote:

... I would more often than not wake up 3-4 times every night to pee.

I've been taking 2 Melatonin about 90 minutes before bed... only waking up 1 or 2 times to pee.

Maybe sleeping isn't your issue?

"What's your claim?" - Ben Gravy
"Your best work is the work you're excited about" - Rick Rubin

Re: Better sleep but less rested with Melatonin? [RandMart] [ In reply to ]

Aug 21, 19 8:44

Post #12 of 39 (9552 views)

I've certainly wondered about that as well but there are no other signs anything is wrong and each pee is a full "volume" pee if you will.

Benjamin Deal - Professional - Instagram - TriRig - Lodi Cyclery
Deals on Wheels - Results, schedule, videos, sponsors

Re: Better sleep but less rested with Melatonin? [RandMart] [ In reply to ]

Aug 21, 19 8:48

Post #13 of 39 (9530 views)

diabetes?

Use this link to save $5 off your USAT membership renewal:
https://membership.usatriathlon.org/...A2-BAD7-6137B629D9B7

Re: Better sleep but less rested with Melatonin? [realbdeal] [ In reply to ]

Aug 21, 19 8:52

Post #14 of 39 (9523 views)

I use Melatonin all the time(probably not the best) but before I would wake up two or 3 times and just lay awake. Melatonin at least helps me get about 5-6 solid hours and then the rest is wake up, back to sleep for 30 minutes, etc til the real wake up time.

The doctor recommended it when I asked about CBD and so it's "worked" for me. If my volume is up though I'm still tired...I think this is mainly due to being older especially the last few years.

Overall, its hard to quantify everything though as I have to get up early for work and in some cases have mid-evening work meetings which spins up the brain too...

Oh I stay under or around the 5mg dose...but if I'm really having a tough time I have done 10mg for a single evening(which boosts my sleep to 8 solid hours).

Last edited by: masterslacker: Aug 21, 19 8:52

Re: Better sleep but less rested with Melatonin? [ In reply to ]

Aug 21, 19 8:59

Post #15 of 39 (9499 views)

If you drink coffee or soda, stop them first and see. Also it's summer time, you drink more so you have to pee in the middle of the night. In general, people sleep better during winter.

Re: Better sleep but less rested with Melatonin? [s13tx] [ In reply to ]

Aug 21, 19 9:07

Post #16 of 39 (9477 views)

I noticed my sleep wasn’t better with sleep aids and only take them when trying to get over jet lag for the first 3-4 nights.

I’m in my early 40’s now and noticed I can’t burn off the caffeine as much as I used to so only drink coffee in the morning. I stop all caffeine by 11-12 now. Noticed I got to sleep better and stayed asleep. I noticed workouts and recover got cleaner averaging around 7:30-8hours of sleep per week (average). Sometimes I would have 6 hours of sleep if it was a super early workout. But I was fine with one night as long as other nights were solid.

The book, “why we sleep” really helped me understand more about sleep hygiene. I tried getting like 8,9+ Hours per night during key workout months, but noticed it didn’t make that much difference for me. So now just try to look at weekly average.

Also, stopping any snacking after 7 or 8pm helped any bathroom visits during the night. Just brush your teeth as early as possible!!

Re: Better sleep but less rested with Melatonin? [tri@thlete] [ In reply to ]

Aug 21, 19 9:14

Post #17 of 39 (9463 views)

tri@thlete wrote:

I can’t burn off the caffeine as much as I used to...
Noticed I got to sleep better and stayed asleep.

This is it. People drink coffee, soda, Redbull...any drink that contains caffeine as a habit and they don't consider quitting it when they can't sleep well. Stop caffeine intake first and go from there.

Re: Better sleep but less rested with Melatonin? [Carl Spackler] [ In reply to ]

Aug 21, 19 9:14

Post #18 of 39 (9461 views)

I use Floyd's Full Spectrum (Floyd's is a client but I was taking CBD before). ~50mg tincture before bed and I sleep pretty well. Surprising the number of pro athletes who take it to sleep better, and especially right before races.

Re: Better sleep but less rested with Melatonin? [AlyraD] [ In reply to ]

Aug 21, 19 9:28

Post #19 of 39 (9421 views)

I've heard good things about magnesium. I've taken magnesium (Pure Vitamin Club brand) post workout for recovery but decided to try it before bed time last week. Whoa, I slept really good but had a hell of a time getting out of bed and ended up missing a practice with my team. I think I need to adjust the dosage and timing but wouldn't mind getting it sorted as to stop waking at 0300 daily.

https://thesleepdoctor.com/...esium-effects-sleep/

Re: Better sleep but less rested with Melatonin? [realbdeal] [ In reply to ]

Aug 21, 19 9:30

Post #20 of 39 (9417 views)

I have a fairly accurate and consistent internal clock, and I wake up @5:15-5:30 every morning [bedtime is between 10:30-11]

Some nights, D'Wife will tell me I tossed around a bunch but I'll have no memory of it - nor whatever I was dreaming that cause me to 'flop like a fish'

She has suggested melatonin to ease restless nights which are inconsistent and unpredictable], but I'm afraid that will mess up my automatic wake-up time

The last thing I want to do is set an alarm for such an hour, because - as I have posted here before - she has warned me, in no uncertain terms: "I don't care what the fuck you do when you get up at 5 fucking whatever. Run, ride, knit, it doesn't matter. Just DON'T wake me the fuck up ... for ANY fucking reason!!!

"What's your claim?" - Ben Gravy
"Your best work is the work you're excited about" - Rick Rubin

Re: Better sleep but less rested with Melatonin? [RandMart] [ In reply to ]

Aug 21, 19 9:38

Post #21 of 39 (9396 views)

+1 on the Floyds tincture. I noticed through my Garmin 935 sleep data that using the CBD at night increased my REM sleep quite a bit. Unfortunately, when I started paying attention I also noticed that anything more than 1 beer or 1 glass of wine really decreased my REM sleep.

Re: Better sleep but less rested with Melatonin? [Doubravsky] [ In reply to ]

Aug 21, 19 9:47

Post #22 of 39 (9380 views)

I notice this when I drink beer. My fenix can pick it up on the stress indicator if I have 3 or so.

Use this link to save $5 off your USAT membership renewal:
https://membership.usatriathlon.org/...A2-BAD7-6137B629D9B7

Re: Better sleep but less rested with Melatonin? [realbdeal] [ In reply to ]

Aug 21, 19 9:55

Post #23 of 39 (9359 views)

realbdeal wrote:

I know this isn't a medical forum but wanted to see if others have experienced anything similar. I often struggle with falling asleep and I would more often than not wake up 3-4 times every night to pee. For the past month or so I've been taking 2 Melatonin about 90 minutes before bed, and I've been sleeping way more consistently. I'm falling asleep in probably 1/3 the time and only waking up 1 or 2 times to pee. Probably getting a solid 7.5-8 hours every night. However I am also just not feeling any better rested during the day. For the past few weeks I've still needed a 30 min or hour long nap. Obviously this could have something to do with my training volume which is up a little bit recently but is still fairly controlled around 16-19 hours a week.

Is the Melatonin actually affecting how rested I feel or are there probably other factors in play? Have others had luck reducing reliance on Melatonin in favor of something like non-THC CBD oil or something similar?

Bro...you may have sleep apnea. I have sleep apnea...I also have a CPAP...and falling asleep with a CPAP is right on impossible. Struggle falling asleep and waking 3-4 times to pee? Yeah I had the same issues the entire time I was in the Army.

Washed up footy player turned Triathlete.

Re: Better sleep but less rested with Melatonin? [realbdeal] [ In reply to ]

Aug 21, 19 10:02

Post #24 of 39 (9344 views)

Maybe cut out the water drinking so close to bedtime? My wife does that, and like you has to get up and pee 2 or 3 times a night. I tell her the same thing, don't drink so much, but after each time, she has a bottle next to the bed to drink again? Of course she falls asleep in about 2 minutes, while i lay there with my earplugs for the next hour or so..

Melatonin never worked for me, tried CBD oil a couple times, seem to keep me awake. I use the Costco brand sleep pill, just half. On bad nights I keep a Benadryl handy.

Re: Better sleep but less rested with Melatonin? [monty] [ In reply to ]

Aug 21, 19 10:12

Post #25 of 39 (9318 views)

Lots of sex, followed by a Marlboro Red, Ambien and some pulls of whiskey. Good Night sweet prince

Our Partners

transition-DOT-area-AT-slowtwitch-DOT-com

Advertise with us

©1999-2024 Slowtwitch, Inc., and Slowtwitch.com
Reproduction of material from any Slowtwitch.com page
without written permission is strictly prohibited.