Run on trails?

My “problem” with this BarryP stuff is it’s basically just volume based no? I think you’re better off training different intensities not just distances.

On the treadmill you have really easily visible intensity changes and you don’t need to stare at your watch the entire time. Gives you tons of training flexibility.

I love my treadmill. I actually love treadmill training too, well, as least as much as one can love it!

Benefits are obvious:
- Super convenient
- Super effective, especially for intervals and hills
- Safer than outdoor running. Especially so if you have weak (old sprained) ankles and are at risk of turning your ankle on roads/trails
- Most reproducible speed/intensity controls
- Can watch movies or listen to music on long runs with a good setup

Drawbacks aren't many:
- Still definitely less fun than trail running
- May need some additional downhill impact training for long races with lots of hills (shorter <10k races, no problem)
- Discrepancies with TM speed and outdoors might be a minor issue
- Costs $1500+ new
- Some folks get really bored on TMs and some people hate the way it feels to run in place.

I do long runs sometimes on my TM to movies with BT earbuds. That's typically enjoyable for about an hour, but once I start pushing the fatigue, I often turn off the TV and focus on pace and survival. I do my hard TM efforts just on the TM - it's hard enough to focus on breathing and form!

I'm not sure that a treadmill really has a huge benefit of less impact, but for time savings and easy of use it's great! I got a treadmill back in 2014, and it hasn't missed a beat in nearly five years (got it on Black Friday sale of that year). Either my wife or I use it most mornings during the school year - we're both teachers. I've done up to 18 mile runs on it - I save the extra long ones for outside.

I use Zwift running and pair it with a running app on my phone that sends speed (manually) via bluetooth to Zwift. I tried a few foot pods, but they aren't nearly as accurate. It can be a bit of a pain for short intervals to try matching the speed via phone to Zwift, but for most runs it's really not an issue.

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What app is that you are using? Would love to know!

I did around 80-85% of my running this year on the treadmill in my two 70.3 builds. Biggest benefit for me I don’t drift out of Z2 as often on the treadmill. I will stick to it for my easy runs. During outside runs I tend to push the pace too much and end up slipping into Z3.

Hill works and speed work is super easy. Just push a button and you’re good to go.

Convenience is a huge thing for me as well. I can get my runs in before the family is awake or after they go to bed. I don’t feel as bad about long runs since I’m right in the backyard if my wife or kids need me.

This time of year I do feel guilty about running on the treadmill since the weather is so nice. I make an effort to get outdoors and run as much as possible, but I love having a treadmill.

I cut a minute per mile/average off my run leg at Augusta 70.3 this year compared to last year. I’m sure part of that was better bike fitness, but last year I did most of my running outdoors and this year I did most on the treadmill which allowed me to run more often, stay in the proper HR zone, and run longer.

Good luck!

No, once you reach your targeted volume, you start adding intensity to one, then both of the "medium" run days.

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"They're made of latex, not nitroglycerin"

No pace-creep on the easy runs has been the biggest plus for me . I set goals to time, not distance, so there's no subconscious incentive to go faster to "get it over with."

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"They're made of latex, not nitroglycerin"

If you don't have access to a treadmill at work or at a gym, I would absolutely vote yes. If you do have access to one you can use occasionally without more than say, $20/month extra then I would vote no because I don't believe it should be a majority of your running (I'd say 1 of 3 runs a week or 2 of 5). Given you are in Florida, I would say there is absolutely a great benefit to using a TM to do long or super steep hill work as I assume it takes some creativity or a far drive to find hills in your area.

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808 > NYC > PDX > YVR
2024 Races: Taupo

A few more benefits:

Nutrition is a lot more convenient. I like to have liquid nutrition when I do my long runs. Outside, that means I have to carry it or do loops back to my car / house where I keep my bottles. On the treadmill, I just keep a few bottles in the holders or nearby, and I can drink whenever I want to.

I also find it easier to put in long easy runs because it puts less pounding on my legs and joints. I realize that’s a part of training too, but I feel like I benefit from truly easy long runs that don’t put too much wear and tear on the body.

I generally hate training indoors, but I find on easy run days that it's best for me to run indoors to avoid going to hard. Other than that, I'm outside (mostly on gravel trails, but some sidewalks/road bike lanes as well).

For sure 18 mpw is at the low end for 70.3 See if you can use the treadmill to get to 30+ mpw.

One thing I find with treadmill which I find similar to riding on the rollers....as you don't have much linear momentum it feels less stable going fast than outdoors....at least this is my theory, but in theory there should be no delta in terms of frames of reference (stationary human going over moving belt is the same as moving human going over stationary ground", but I think in real running there is an acceleration and deceleration phase in every stride, but on the treadmill the body relative to treadmill is fixed velocity.

Treadmill Smart Speed is the app. Very easy to use and far more accurate than foot pod.

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Coaching: https://bybtricoaching.com/ - accepting athletes for 2023

Got it. But what intensity to add? How to break out the intervals?

Have you read all of the BarryP links?

https://forum.slowtwitch.com/forum/?post=1612485

Phase 1 build easy volume via 3:2:1, for 70.3 that should be about 4:8:12... Or 40 mpw.

Phase 2 replace one of the 8 mile runs with a tempo run. Tempo is lower zone 3 to upper zone 4, in 20-40 minute chunks. Longer chunks lower part of tempo, shorter chunks higher tempo/threshold.

Phase 3: replace the other 8 mile run with another tempo run. Maybe with a slightly different flavor. Maybe a 1x40 for one and a 4-6x10 for the other.

The BarryP link about goes into great detail how to plan the medium runs for specific race distances from sprints and open 5k races up to marathons and full IM. Much more detail
than the cursory stuff I've said above.

Copy that, thx. The more I learn and the deeper I go down the rabbit hole of planning and periodization, the more confusing it gets.

Define "more accurate". I've done a ton of testing with my treadmill and footpod and outdoor running. I think I have a very good handle on my TM and footpod accuracy.

From what I can read on the app description, I'm not sure how it is supposed to be "accurate".

For 70.3 there is no need to over think it. Just run more and more often. And never stop...It takes a long while to get back what you lose... Much longer than cycling.

Add in the tempo runs as described when you get to 40 mpw.

Shorter distances and actual fast running is more complicated than the run leg of 70.3 with tempo, threshold, speed work, etc. I'm using barryP for an open 10k in 8 weeks, where I'm trying to set a PR. Trust me... LOTS of intensity.

Back to TM pros/cons. Ive had a TM for 20 years (same one). I've used it to train for marathons, 5ks, IM, Oly, and sprint tris. I love running outside. I run about 40mpw. I don't really notice much difference in impact. LH covered most of the pros and cons.

The other thing I would mention is that any speedwork and even threshold work is hard to accomplish outside when it's hot. I live in Texas, so I deal with it 6 months of the year (not the 10 of Florida, but still). Running slower just doesn't cut it for that. Speed is speed. I do those outside whenever the weather cooperates, but I move them inside to the TM everytime it doesn't. I have enough data to know my indoor speed vs outdoor speed calibration.

Thank you so much everyone for the feedback. The benefits seem to be very clear, so I will incorporate more treadmill running into my training.

The local YMCA to which I belong and do my swimming is just 5 minutes away and has a plethora of treadmills so I will begin there and then determine if one of my own will be worth it.

Given I'm a pathetically heavy sweater and a mere 30-45 minutes on a treadmill results in pools of sweat all around, I suspect out of general embarrassment I'll end up with one of my own :-)

Again, this community is great and thanks for the feedback.

On that note, use a fan. A big one. On high. You need cooling. You won't get it with stationary air. Hot and slow, is still slow. Excess dehydration doesn't do anything good.

I use a 24" industrial fan, on high. Always. It move WAY more air than anything you can buy at Wal-Mart.

I think this is why most people advocate running on an incline rather than a flat treadmill

Yes, the bulk of the available data appears to confirm that surface hardness does not dramatically impact peak ground reaction force during running.
http://www.arpnjournals.org/...7/jeas_0417_5896.pdf

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A study investigated a concept related to this. There were two primary findings. First, running economy was lower on a treadmill compared to solid ground at a given speed and grade. Second (and I don't recall the complete interpretation), the compromised economy couldn't be isolated to any one discrete variable that they measured (e.g., increased vertical oscillation or altered gate properties). Their global conclusion was that subjects felt less stable and that that feeling somehow resulted in decreased economy, presumably by elevated contraction of stabilizing muscles. That's my recollection of the study, anyway.

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The incline is there to simulate wind resistance at the typical speed most of us run....0.5 percent to 1.5 percent usually covers the wind load....but it really does not change the fact that the treadmill is going at constant speed relative to the body versus a slightly variable speed within stride.