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Beat a dead horse: the ongoing "lap-length" debate...
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I don't think swimmers actually use either term, at least not when talking with each other. UNLESS it is using "lap" in the phrases "I got lapped," or "I'm putting the orange card in, she's on the last lap of the 500." In that second scenario, the swimmer is IN HER LAST 50, since the counter is put in while the swimmer approaches the last 25 or 50 (lc) turn finishing the race.

In terms of individual lengths of the pool, swimmers almost always use "25" or "50," depending on the race course. I can't think of any swimmer or coach using lengths or laps in any set, because it's always something like "400 warm-up," or "8 x 25 sprints."

The only time I use "laps" is if I tell someone who doesn't know that much about swimming that I'm going to the pool. I might say "I'm going to swim some laps," and after, mention the distance swam (in yards or meters; never laps, lengths, km, or miles).
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Re: Beat a dead horse: the ongoing "lap-length" debate... [140triguy] [ In reply to ]
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YAY - I miss this argument. It's been too long since we've debated the merits of lap vs length.

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2020 National Masters Champion - M50-54 - 50m Butterfly
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Re: Beat a dead horse: the ongoing "lap-length" debate... [140triguy] [ In reply to ]
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Laps is used in the swimming world in the lower AG's.

"I think I've cracked the code. double letters are cheaters except for perfect squares (a, d, i, p and y). So Leddy isn't a cheater... "
Last edited by: Leddy: Mar 1, 18 11:48
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Re: Beat a dead horse: the ongoing "lap-length" debate... [140triguy] [ In reply to ]
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You're right about the way set lists are written though I know I personally count lengths just because I find it easier to remember 1...2...3... rather than 25....50...75.... But to each their own.

I don't know if it's notable or not but the long-distance count boards you mention display length or turn numbers for the swimmers (at least in USA Swimming). So on a 500 SCY the swimmer sees 1 at the first turn, then 3, 5, and so on to 17 before seeing orange for turn 19. So in this circumstance you could say that length counts are used.
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Re: Beat a dead horse: the ongoing "lap-length" debate... [140triguy] [ In reply to ]
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Observationaly I would say you are on to something here.

nonswimmers ask me how many laps I did. The one guy I know at my gym who was a swimmer will ask "how far did you go?"
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Re: Beat a dead horse: the ongoing "lap-length" debate... [140triguy] [ In reply to ]
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I swim lots - but I am most definitely not a "swimmer"
I only use laps as a counter in my head during sets as well. Always swim in 25m pool and count 50m as 1 "Lap".
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Re: Beat a dead horse: the ongoing "lap-length" debate... [y_nigel] [ In reply to ]
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I find once I get over 200m I totally loose track of the meters and find it easier just count to 8 for a 400m
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Re: Beat a dead horse: the ongoing "lap-length" debate... [BlackStumpGumby] [ In reply to ]
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But the swimmer sees the orange card (for 19, 39, or 65 in a 25 yard pool) BEFORE doing her turn, so she's not in her last 25 when she sees it, she's in her last 50, a lap. Those counters are called lap counters.
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Re: Beat a dead horse: the ongoing "lap-length" debate... [140triguy] [ In reply to ]
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Those counters are called lap counters.

or "cards"

maybe she's born with it, maybe it's chlorine
If you're injured and need some sympathy, PM me and I'm very happy to write back.
disclaimer: PhD not MD
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Re: Beat a dead horse: the ongoing "lap-length" debate... [140triguy] [ In reply to ]
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"I got lapped,"

... meaning the other person is 50 yards ahead of you. Hence a lap is 50 yards.

maybe she's born with it, maybe it's chlorine
If you're injured and need some sympathy, PM me and I'm very happy to write back.
disclaimer: PhD not MD
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Re: Beat a dead horse: the ongoing "lap-length" debate... [Dr. Tigerchik] [ In reply to ]
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... or 100m in a 50m pool...

The best way to consider a lap is as a round trip. In NASCAR, Indy Racing, Track and Field, speed skating, track cycling, LOOPS ON THE IMAZ COURSE, etc, a lap is one round trip. Start, traverse the course, return to the start, start another trip, etc.

In swimming, a lap is a 50 or a 100. A round trip. QED.
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Re: Beat a dead horse: the ongoing "lap-length" debate... [ajthomas] [ In reply to ]
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Honestly, I have NO IDEA how many laps I swim n a workout. It's always X yards or meters. If someone asks me to say how many laps I did, I'd have to do a little math. 3000 in a short pool is 120 lengths, right? 60 laps.
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Re: Beat a dead horse: the ongoing "lap-length" debate... [140triguy] [ In reply to ]
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I'm a swimmer, and all the swimmers I know use both laps and lengths. A length is one way down the pool. A lap is down and back.
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Re: Beat a dead horse: the ongoing "lap-length" debate... [140triguy] [ In reply to ]
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I don’t understand the debate - they are completely different terms and not interchangeable. One is a length and one is a lap, or two lengths.


http://theworldthroumyeyes.tumblr.com/
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Re: Beat a dead horse: the ongoing "lap-length" debate... [imswimmer328] [ In reply to ]
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I always took lap in any form of use pertaining to a track or course to be like a loop or one "cycle" where you have returned to the point at which you started. Looked it up in the dictionary just now on Google and says the same thing, but the funny thing is explicitly states that one definition of a lap is "a stage in a swim consisting of two lengths of a pool."

I never count lengths or laps though. I go by 50's and 100's. And always speak of my workout length in total yards. Not in some arrogant swimming way, just common practice.
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Re: Beat a dead horse: the ongoing "lap-length" debate... [140triguy] [ In reply to ]
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140triguy wrote:
But the swimmer sees the orange card (for 19, 39, or 65 in a 25 yard pool) BEFORE doing her turn, so she's not in her last 25 when she sees it, she's in her last 50, a lap. Those counters are called lap counters.


You're correct that they're called lap counters, but I've no idea what distinction you're trying to make. Say you see 17 in a 500 SCY. That means you're about to do your 17th turn and you'll have done 425 at that turn. If a lap is 50 yards then obviously that 17 doesn't signify your 17th lap. It means you're about to complete your 17th 25-yard length. When you return to the turn-end you'll see orange which signifies you're about to do your 19th turn, complete 475, and then head to the start/finish end to complete the 500.

And just to really pulpify this horse, USA swimming calls them lengths. Here's Rule 102.6(A):

"A swimmer in the 500/1000/1650 yard or 800/1500 meter freestyle or other long distance
pool event (see 102.1.3) may appoint one counter to call lengths or indicate
lengths by visual sign."
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Re: Beat a dead horse: the ongoing "lap-length" debate... [140triguy] [ In reply to ]
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As mentioned, most "swimmers" don't talk in terms of laps, only distance.

I count in distance also.

As I said in the other thread. It's like asking a runner what kind of sneakers they use for jogging.

Also, I think it's funny that triathletes are picking on swimmers over the definition of lap, when they talk about bike and run splits, when they are technically bike and run laps, or lap times. The split time would be the cumulative time at the end of each leg. Only the swim would have the same lap and split time. Of course, what happens if the race has 'split' transition areas, can you call it a lap if you don't start and stop in the same spot? ;-)
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Re: Beat a dead horse: the ongoing "lap-length" debate... [140triguy] [ In reply to ]
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Should the "ongoing 'lap-length' debate".be re-named the "Lengthy Lap Dance?"

Just a thought

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Re: Beat a dead horse: the ongoing "lap-length" debate... [140triguy] [ In reply to ]
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"Lap" is what is known in legal parlance as a "term of art." That is "a word or phrase that has a precise, specialized meaning within a particular field or profession"

In the swimming profession, lap = length = one trip from here to the other end. There and back to where you started is 2 lengths or 2 laps.


I think when we are done with this we should debate what the dimensions of a 2x4 are ;-)
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Re: Beat a dead horse: the ongoing "lap-length" debate... [STP] [ In reply to ]
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STP wrote:
"Lap" is what is known in legal parlance as a "term of art." That is "a word or phrase that has a precise, specialized meaning within a particular field or profession"

In the swimming profession, lap = length = one trip from here to the other end. There and back to where you started is 2 lengths or 2 laps.


I think when we are done with this we should debate what the dimensions of a 2x4 are ;-)

1 3/4 by 3 1/2
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Re: Beat a dead horse: the ongoing "lap-length" debate... [Lucky489] [ In reply to ]
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Lucky489 wrote:
STP wrote:
"Lap" is what is known in legal parlance as a "term of art." That is "a word or phrase that has a precise, specialized meaning within a particular field or profession"

In the swimming profession, lap = length = one trip from here to the other end. There and back to where you started is 2 lengths or 2 laps.


I think when we are done with this we should debate what the dimensions of a 2x4 are ;-)


1 3/4 by 3 1/2

I think that new codes are metric, so they are now 38 x 89
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Re: Beat a dead horse: the ongoing "lap-length" debate... [STP] [ In reply to ]
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STP wrote:
In the swimming profession, lap = length = one trip from here to the other end. There and back to where you started is 2 lengths or 2 laps

When swimming was my profession this was never the case - Lap = 2 x length. Yet mostly 50/100 or 25/50 respectively.


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Re: Beat a dead horse: the ongoing "lap-length" debate... [ShoMyOFace] [ In reply to ]
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ShoMyOFace wrote:
STP wrote:
In the swimming profession, lap = length = one trip from here to the other end. There and back to where you started is 2 lengths or 2 laps


When swimming was my profession this was never the case - Lap = 2 x length. Yet mostly 50/100 or 25/50 respectively.

I remember one coach (high school coach, didn't know what he was really doing) who would tell us the next part of the workout as "swim 4 laps freestyle" or something like that. Being snotty-nosed teenagers that we were, that was a prime opportunity to sow discord and confusion.

Swimming Workout of the Day:

Favourite Swim Sets:

2020 National Masters Champion - M50-54 - 50m Butterfly
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Re: Beat a dead horse: the ongoing "lap-length" debate... [ShoMyOFace] [ In reply to ]
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When swimming was my profession this was never the case - Lap = 2 x length. Yet mostly 50/100 or 25/50 respectively.

Out of curiosity where are you from ?

I have once or twice heard someone with a background in swimming say a lap = 2 x length. I can't remember where they were from but I want to say one was west coast (US) and other was European.

"I think I've cracked the code. double letters are cheaters except for perfect squares (a, d, i, p and y). So Leddy isn't a cheater... "
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Re: Beat a dead horse: the ongoing "lap-length" debate... [Leddy] [ In reply to ]
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Leddy wrote:
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When swimming was my profession this was never the case - Lap = 2 x length. Yet mostly 50/100 or 25/50 respectively.


Out of curiosity where are you from ?

I have once or twice heard someone with a background in swimming say a lap = 2 x length. I can't remember where they were from but I want to say one was west coast (US) and other was European.

I agree with this. I'm from Canada though - so can you really trust me??
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