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Bad Bike Fit: The tangible hazards.
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I had two experiences over the past week that underscored the critical nature of proper bike fit.

At the U.S. Olympic Trials in Honolulu, Hawaii two elite competitors with crhonically bad bike position and fit experienced serious orthopedic problems most likely a result of, or contributed to significantly, by obvious (to me) problems with their bike positions. Photos I shot of these athletes reveal rudimentary problems with their positioning and equipment selection- despite the fact they they are literally world class. One failed to finsh the race altogther. The other had a lackluster performance.

USAT physical Therapist Amie told me that poor bike fit is the "Most common" source of running injuries or rather, injuries that manifest themselves on the run.

And finally, a woman who was sized for a bike by us and fit on a "Brand A" bike decided she wanted a "Brand B" bike because she liked the appearance better (her words). She found the Brand B bike at another dealer and bought it. The bike had a handlebar configuration that was too long and too wide for her. I carefully explained this to her on three seperate occasions and in one phone conversation with her husband. She either failed to understand or choose to ignore our insights and warnings.

She bought the bike we advised her would be a "compromise fit" at best and, about two weeks ago, had a serious crash on a descent resulting in a head injury that rendered her unconcious.

I don't mean to be elitist, a snob, or say "I told you so". But people, if we warn you about something- please take our warning seriously. We (I)warned her the bike would not be optimal or even safe for her level of handling skills based on the information she gave us about her current riding experience. She chose to ignore it- her prerogative as a customer- who we acknowledge is always king. There was a reason we warned her. It wasn't about selling one bike versus another. Incidentally, we sell both bikes she was considering- the one she liked the looks of and the one we recommended.

I do maintain that, had she taken our recommendation, the likelyhood of her crashing as it was related to me may have been very significantly reduced.

Tom Demerly
The Tri Shop.com
Last edited by: Tom Demerly: Apr 23, 04 2:35
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Re: Bad Bike Fit: The tangible hazards. [Tom Demerly] [ In reply to ]
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tom, you're an elitist snob... ;)



ok...seriously though...she's a tool.

thanks for sharing the story, hopefully people start listening (ya right :P) when experts tell them what's best.




"Anyone can work hard when they want to; Champions do it when they don't."
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Re: Bad Bike Fit: The tangible hazards. [Kevin Gregg] [ In reply to ]
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...really, I'm a very nice guy. :)

Tom Demerly
The Tri Shop.com
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Re: Bad Bike Fit: The tangible hazards. [Tom Demerly] [ In reply to ]
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You'd expect this sort of thing with newbies but it is amazing to hear of it with elites and pros. Guess they're too busy training to take the time to read Slowman's and your bike fit articles.
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Re: Bad Bike Fit: The tangible hazards. [Tom Demerly] [ In reply to ]
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In Reply To:
...really, I'm a very nice guy. :)
Pretty damn right!

It takes no more than listening carefully what you state... ;)

Now I'm thinking of selling my non-snug-fit MTB shoes (and you said only twice that you're REALLY worried about their fit).

It's a pleasure dealing with a truly caring & proffesional guy like you!

Sandor
Last edited by: Shony: Apr 23, 04 9:39
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Re: Bad Bike Fit: The tangible hazards. [Rip Van Winkle] [ In reply to ]
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I agree Rip Van Winkle.

Tom Demerly
The Tri Shop.com
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Re: Bad Bike Fit: The tangible hazards. [Tom Demerly] [ In reply to ]
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Quote:
I do maintain that, had she taken our recommendation, the likelyhood of her crashing as it was related to me may have been very significantly reduced.


Worst part of all - people like this are the ones who will take what you told them and hire an attorney to file a law suit against the other bike shop and all of this because a customer refused to listen to the voice of experience/reason or even exercise common sense!



Michael

¯\_(ツ)_/¯
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Re: Bad Bike Fit: The tangible hazards. [ms6073] [ In reply to ]
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Realistically, I view this as a failure on my part. I tried to be articulate, respectful and credible in explaining in tangible, empiracal terms why the bike she wanted was not the right choice for her. But I failed to make my case so she bought the wrong bike. That is my failure. Had I done a better job she would have understood the reason why the bike she originally wanted was not suitable for her.

In retrospect, it was pretty darn obvious. However, she had a lot of "armchair experts" advising her and wound up making a mistake. I feel bad about that.

I heard through the grapevine she didn;t want to come back here after the accident becasue she is "too embarrassed" (especially now if she reads this forum, which I am quite sure she does not- otherwise I wouldn;t have posted this to begin with).

Tom Demerly
The Tri Shop.com
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Re: Bad Bike Fit: The tangible hazards. [Tom Demerly] [ In reply to ]
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In Reply To:
Realistically, I view this as a failure on my part. I tried to be articulate, respectful and credible in explaining in tangible, empiracal terms why the bike she wanted was not the right choice for her. But I failed to make my case so she bought the wrong bike. That is my failure. Had I done a better job she would have understood the reason why the bike she originally wanted was not suitable for her.

In retrospect, it was pretty darn obvious. However, she had a lot of "armchair experts" advising her and wound up making a mistake. I feel bad about that.


Sorry dude, but that's complete and utter BS. She made up her own mind based partially on what you said, an unknown percentage on what her other advisors said, and ultimately on what she decided was most important to her - looks. Unless you could have magically made the bike you recommended look just like the one she bought (or better in her eyes), you had an incredibly small chance of ever getting her on the right bike. She decided that looks was more important to her than fit, and thus her safety was compromised. You may have explained that to her several times, however she chose to ignore it. This indicates that no amount of reasoning on your part would have persuded her otherwise. This is not your fault, as you did everything you could reasonably be expected to do (and more!) to steer her in the right decision. The fact that she did not buy the model she ultimately selected from you (whether because you refused to sell it to her or by her own choice) gives you complete absolution from her resulting crash and injuries. You had nothing to do with the purchase.



Now hurry up and sell me a 56cm Colnago Master X Light over the internet even though I'm 5'6 with short legs and a long torso - the customer is always right! :D


<If you're gonna be dumb, you gotta be tough>
Get Fitter!
Proud member of the Smartasscrew, MONSTER CLUB
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Re: Bad Bike Fit: The tangible hazards. [Tom Demerly] [ In reply to ]
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I'm pretty experienced and savvy about my own bike fit issues, and I made a decision a few months ago that my tri frame was too short (in length) for safe riding. I bought a longer frame and built it up. My hunch was confirmed at WTHalf on the long winding downhill. My new build handled beautifully and gave me the confidence to descend that canyon on Slowman's wheel. By way of reference, Slowman is a maniacal (but talented and safe) descender. There is no way I would have gone downhill that fast on my old frame.

Safety first!
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Re: Bad Bike Fit: The tangible hazards. [Tom Demerly] [ In reply to ]
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Tom,

1. How can one determine if the fitter they choose is giving accurate information?

2. Where can I find your articles?

3. I'm a newbie, don't have a bike, want a bike, but don't know anything about bike purchasing.

Thanks.

-Gilbert

____________________________________
I am fat, AGAIN!
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Re: Bad Bike Fit: The tangible hazards. [Gilberto] [ In reply to ]
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[Had I done a better job she would have understood the reason why the bike she originally wanted was not suitable for her. ]

it never would have happened. she's a moron at heart and had her mind set on the other bike. nothing you said would have or could have changed her mind. her ignorance, stubborness and inability to admit to herself that she and her armchair qb's might be wrong almost increased the IQ of the rest of us cyclists.
I'd charge her an extra 25% on everthing next time she comes in b/c she is a demostrated liability to your business. you can call it a dumbass fee.

Brian Stover USAT LII
Accelerate3 Coaching
Insta

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Re: Bad Bike Fit: The tangible hazards. [desert dude] [ In reply to ]
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A dumbass fee? lol. We could use it to replace taxes altogether. I love it.
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Re: Bad Bike Fit: The tangible hazards. [desert dude] [ In reply to ]
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funny thing. i'm sure we all look at asthetics, me included. but for me i have chosen to go up in price, get a nicer bike and get the one that looks good to me, provided it "fits" right. I wouldn't buy the wrong bike just because i wanted it to look a special way. hence, i will be shelling out more money to get both, looks, fit and better bike.
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Re: Bad Bike Fit: The tangible hazards. [Khai] [ In reply to ]
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Khai and others, I do sincerely appreciate your kind words and empathy. To a degree, I agree with you. But here's the thing:

A key part of this job is being able to communicate- no, INFECT the customer with a tangible need to be correctly fitted above all else. After a concise, articulate pitch on how important bike fit is they should have some insight into why it is so critical.

Failing that understanding- is it their fault they didn;t listen/care? Or is it my fault I didn't do a compelling enough job instilling the importance of bike fit in the customer?

I think I may have failed to communicate it. Now given, she was a tough nut to crack. Even though I kept it simple and short so she could grasp the concept I could tell she still didn't have any concept that one bike may fit her slightly better than another (or in this case, much better)- especially if one had one-piece aerobars that weren't even close to fitting her even with modification.

I've seen Dan talk to people about fit. They are captivated. He commands them and he generally owns them hook, line and sinker. I think it is for two reasons: He is a people person and a good talker and, his fit ideas are pretty concise and sensical.

Dan could have closed this sale, got the women on the appropriate bike and kept her off one that was potentially dangerous. I somehow didn't pull that off. That's disappointing to me.

It's frustrating. Man... What do you have to say!?!

Tom Demerly
The Tri Shop.com
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Re: Bad Bike Fit: The tangible hazards. [Tom Demerly] [ In reply to ]
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TD I'm in sales and pretty good at it. All i do is try and show, tell explain things to people. Some people no matter how many times you tell them, how you tell them, you show them, what you say etc, will not hear you.
think back at how many times your parents said if you do xyz your going to get hurt or something bad is going to happen. You went, or I did anyway, and did xyz and abc and gfh and so on. guess what they were right as you were.
You can't communicate with all the people all the time. if you could you wouldn't need different personalities working in your shop. the same personality type would be able to get the message across every time and to every customer.
Quit beating yourself over the head about it. She lives, even though you told her the correct thing to do and she did the opposite. (I'd still charge her the dumbass premium)
Another tack is to ring her up and ask if she is doing ok, that you heard she crashed and if she needs help getting rolling again that you are there to help. If she is embarrassed to come in you will probably get her in the door by reaching out. just a thought

Brian Stover USAT LII
Accelerate3 Coaching
Insta

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Re: Bad Bike Fit: The tangible hazards. [Tom Demerly] [ In reply to ]
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In Reply To:
A key part of this job is being able to communicate- no, INFECT the customer with a tangible need to be correctly fitted above all else. After a concise, articulate pitch on how important bike fit is they should have some insight into why it is so critical. ...
Dan could have closed this sale, got the women on the appropriate bike and kept her off one that was potentially dangerous. I somehow didn't pull that off. That's disappointing to me.
Ok, I can go along with this. Disappointment makes sense. But blame? No dude... There is completely none on your part. You may feel bad about a customer who refuses to listen to you, but you cannot hold yourself responsible for his or her actions.


<If you're gonna be dumb, you gotta be tough>
Get Fitter!
Proud member of the Smartasscrew, MONSTER CLUB
Get your FIX today?
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Re: Bad Bike Fit: The tangible hazards. [Tom Demerly] [ In reply to ]
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Tom, when I manage to convert you and the rest of the board to Catholicism, I will accept that it was your failure to convince that lady to buy the right bike.

There's only so much you can do- you can lead a horse to water, blah blah blah.

Buck up, you did the best that could be done. I hope she's OK, and I hope she chooses more wisely in the future.








"People think it must be fun to be a super genius, but they don't realize how hard it is to put up with all the idiots in the world."
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Re: Bad Bike Fit: The tangible hazards. [desert dude] [ In reply to ]
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"or I did anyway, and did xyz and abc and gfh and so on"

Desert Dude, if you went and did 'gfh' and not 'fgh', well no wonder you came a cropper ;-)
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