It is possible for sure if you dedicate yourself to that goal. I was getting there prior to shattering my back. Now my goals have changed as the run on a 1/2 IM damn near kills me and that is at 9 min pace. Lucky for me I am getting old and into the slower classes but it would still be a stretch for me to hold out that long on the run. Now I work for PB post injury and am trying to improve every year.

Right but by and large they All had an athletic background of some kind, wether it's running, biking, swimming individually or even hockey. To me that's a lifestyle they had which gives a huge advantage over the athlete just starting up with no previous base physically or metally.

Could the average AG athlete do it, I say yes. Is the average person willing to do the work required - NO.

What's your current training progam like?
Are you willing to workout for 15-20 hours a week for half the year?

If someone has the ability to handle run mileage of 50-60 miles week Boston is easily within reach, not for everyone but I would easily say 70% could do it.

If you can handle the mileage then get out the door 2x a day most days, some days work hard others go easy, it's not rocket science.

Excellent insight.

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I have no endurance background at all....unless you want to count enduring the boredom of playing right field in baseball. Having a "background" in one of the SBR sports is huge. I have a friend that was a college runner and sat practically untrained for a few years and then churned out a 3:30 marathon on 2 weeks of training. I could never do that.....ever...ever...

Neither me nor any of my friends won the genetic lottery, but all of us are respectable athletes in general. My argument to them was that with 5 years of solid training under your belt, anything is possible for a non-genetic freak.

And my stand-alone metrics for "what it would take" for Kona were these:

Swim - 5:15 400y
Bike - 300W FTP (@70% IM = 210W)
Run - 3:05 marathon

Swim: should be achieveable with practice. Nothing special genetically needed for this.
Bike: I remember seeing a thread on here saying that 300W FTP was achievable for just about any sub-40 year old male. Anything above that requires something special. (my current FTP is ~230W)
Run: This might be the toughest one, but within the realm of reasonable for a decent (non-exceptional) athlete with the right training. (3:24 marathon for me on sub-optimal/injured training)

I was arguing that if you could hit all those metrics, you have a shot. And none of them seem that outlandish to me.

You have to bust your butt to get to Kona, no matter where you start. If you are fast out of the gates on the first Ironman, great, you have less work, but you still have to bust your butt.

I'm sure it's possible. I was an 11:56 first time IM guy at Lake Placid and then went 9:58 at IMC last year. I train hard. 5 years ago, I was a couch potato with no athletic history at all.

If I can improve, then anyone can.

Ken

Ps. I still missed out on a Kona slot my 15 minutes.

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"the trick is to keep losing weight until your friends and family ask you if you've been sick. then you know you're within 10 pounds. if they start whispering to each other, wondering if you've got cancer or aids, you're within 5. when they actually do an intervention, you're at race weight." - Slowman

Quote:

If I can improve, then anyone can.

How could you know that? With no athletic history I'm not sure how you would know your genetic potential. I don't think you can take your experience and apply it to everyone else like that. What if you had done the exact same work and finished in 13:00.

Thom

I actually feel that most people think they're doing MUCH more than they actually are. I lost 60lbs during my progress and I know that I push harder in most workouts than most of my friends (often to my detriment (i.e. Injuries)).

I think if most people worked as hard at it as I do, they would see the same results.

When I'm pool running due to running injuries I wonder why I'm alone when I know others with running injuries. That's when I get the satisfaction that I'm working harder than most of my competitors.

I'm sure there are some people with significant genetic limiters, but I've had my lung volume measured and it's significantly below average. It hasn't slowed me down much.

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"the trick is to keep losing weight until your friends and family ask you if you've been sick. then you know you're within 10 pounds. if they start whispering to each other, wondering if you've got cancer or aids, you're within 5. when they actually do an intervention, you're at race weight." - Slowman

"Total time: 9:48. That was good enough for 18th place in the M35-29. Winner went 8:58. "

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I'm surprised there were 17 other people in that age group. ;-)

The problem with being right 99.99% of the time is that when I make a mistake, I get jumped left and right (pun intended).

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People want to ignore genetic limitations because you can't do anything about them. It's not a problem that can be "fixed" and most people don't want to hear that. As an example, Jack Daniels says that with optimal training, most individuals can improve their VDOT 20%. That's 20%, not a 100%. Is there someone out there that can improve their VDOT 25%? Sure, but I'll bet against 50%.

To me, to recognize that you (and everyone else in the world) have some limitations takes absolutely nothing away from the fun of endurance athletics. When we step up to the start line are we competing against the others in the race--of course. But the real competition is against ourselves. We can't control who shows up. What we can control is doing the best we can do on that day. And of course doing the best we can do on that day is a result of years of hard work, preparation, luck, efficacious work, etc.

ST is very long course biased, and if you are long course biased, qualifying for Kona is the ultimate goal for most AGers. That's ok. But there are thousands of us that won't ever get to Kona, don't want to go to Kona, and couldn't get to Kona if we tried, but are still working as hard as we can at the goals we have set for ourselves. My goals for 2011 are on the 2011 goals thread and I still expect to hit every damn one of them this year. If I don't I promise you it won't be because I didn't put the work in.

Phil

youre still making excuses rather than asking yourself the question "what am i not doing that can make me faster"

Btw, the winner of that AG went 9:07. Just piling on while I have the opportunity...

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blood, sweat...and big gears

I hated every minute of training, but I said, ''Don't quit. Suffer now and live the rest of your life as a champion.''
- Muhammad Ali

You're wrong. I believe I will hit every goal I have for myself this year, and believe me everyone of them involves me going faster not slower.

If you think genetic limitations play no role in sports, you are certainly entitled to that opinion. I just disagree with your fundamental premise.

I'm in a pretty similar spot, a few years into it. My first IM (on 10-12 hours weekly training) was 11:50 (IM CDA) , the next year on about the same training load I went ~10:50 at
IM AZ. I started to convince myself that I had some potential and was a potential KQ'er. I upped my volume to 15-18 hours a week for 9 months working with the same coach
as before... and clocked a 12:35 at IM SG.

Despite the variations in time, I ended up between 15-18% in my AG in all 3 races... I think my performance potential is pretty well defined. The KQ slots
usually go the top 2%.

If I quit my job, left my family, and trained like a pro with the best resources, I think it's possible that I could pick up a KQ slot somewhere...taking 45 minutes to
an hour out of my time is possible, but not likely. Given that I don't plan to retire or get divorced, the likelihood is exceedingly small.

Good luck with yours.

.

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" I take my gear out of my car and put my bike together. Tourists and locals are watching from sidewalk cafes. Non-racers. The emptiness of of their lives shocks me. "
(opening lines from Tim Krabbe's The Rider , 1978

i dont think anyone has ever said that genetics dont play a role.

i bet you havent:
-dropped as much weight as you possibly could.
-ran 70mpw during 2 seasons of a year for 3-4 years
-effectively trained with a power meter
-had a coach look at your swim technique

The idea is that KQ is not impossible for most people who have relatively normal physiology.

When you say 'genetic limitations', you have to specify exactly what you mean. Otherwise you're not really saying anything.

Are you missing an arm? Have you got a thyroid condition which makes it impossible to lose weight? Debilitating asthma?

If you can't specify what these genetic limitations are, then you've got nothing to back up the claim that they exist at all.

good thing VDOT is not the be all end all of IM potential.

There is an element of belief that goes on in sport. Really, that is step 1.

Not only do some here not believe, but I am amazed at the amount of people trying to convince others what they can and cannot do--and realize there are people reading this, not even posting.......

To me, getting to Kona is less about the training, and more about eliminating most everything in your life that prevents you from being able to ABSORB the training......so many willing to do the work, so few willing to cut out life.

That is the difference between those without a genetic boost---they remove shit that is fun but not necessary out of their life to get-the-work-done.

the guy/gal that completely sets up their life to ensure success--well, just get out of their way.............

 
"But what if we did?"
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You, or your friends, would have to do the work and find out. It could take a while. Training adaptations are quickly lost so you would have to focus on it continuously for some time and hope to improve your fitness about 10% per year.

The key is Consistancy!

Just looking at the 3:20 run...current Boston Marathon qualifying time for 35-39 males is 3:15, dropping to 3:10 for 2013. Somewhere in the neighborhood of 3% of marathoners BQ each year.
So, for the run alone, we're looking at coming close to BQ times at the end of an IM. I've got to vote not likely for the average athlete. I willingly conceed that many more could qualify given improved prep, but in reality I think it's a huge stretch to guess even 1 in 4 could potentially reach this the goal of BQ'ing, and maybe 1 in 10 could KQ.

I bet most people have no desire to do the work they need to get the job done, it's not that they can't do it, it's that they don't want to.

Exactly. People like to dish out excuses such as the the age old "genetics" one, but the reality is that it's easier to defeat yourself in your mind than to get out there and do what it takes to reach your goals. Most amateur athletes never come close to reaching their full potential. They think that they can go through the motions and when it doesn't work out the way they expected they toss out some excuse they've kept handy and give up.

The requirement to excel in all forms of athletics has 3 main components:

1. Training QUALITY (quantity alone does not cut it)
2. Nutrition
3. Rest

Neglect any one of these 3 things and you will fail. The thing that controls all 3 is the mind. If you don't have your head where it needs to be to optimize these 3 things, you will defeat yourself and fail. That is the difference between those who excel and those who don't. Genetics is an excuse almost all of the time. Sure, it comes into play at the very very tip of the pro field, but it's a non-issue for the amateur field where very few have come close to reaching their true abilities.