for SWIMMING?

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maybe she's born with it, maybe it's chlorine
If you're injured and need some sympathy, PM me and I'm very happy to write back.
disclaimer: PhD not MD

Yep for swimmers.

The company I am working with can waterproof iPods from the inside so there are no big bulky cases. Then you just download the workout and hit the pool.

It was the "percieved exertion" thing I was questioning. And HR...

Swim training's pretty straightforward and easier if you do "10 x 100 on 1:20" or so rather than "30 min at PE of 5 and I want my HR at X"

KISS!

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maybe she's born with it, maybe it's chlorine
If you're injured and need some sympathy, PM me and I'm very happy to write back.
disclaimer: PhD not MD

A couple notes, and I definitely appreciate your comments:

The perceived exerption method is primarily for the introductory volumes before the software that allows you to change your intervals and goal times is fully developed.

in response to your thoughts, I dont think most people who havent had a background in swimming are able to strictly adhere to a set they concoct themselves. (and if they can, chances are it may not be the best use of their time) I can speak to this personally as I was a nationally-ranked swimmer for a number of years and now, when I go out to swim without a coach or workout, I am uninspired and definitely not training effectively.

With this product, you have can have an accredited coach in your ear giving you a set that will maximize your training time, motivate you and make you push yourself harder.

As a parallel, I would refer you to Troy Jacobson's "Spinervals" cycling products. Troy is a friend of mine and I think what he has done with Spinervals is amazing. With his product, you can get a great workout, targetting whatever goals you may have (sprinting, time trials, hills), in a short period of time from you own home. (if the weather is too nasty to cycle etc)

At the same time, my product provides technique instruction, great music with cadence appropriate for swimmers, and a workout that will maximize training time given your specific goals.

I hope this answered your question and please feel free to ask any more and I welcome any and all comments.

Thanks!

I think this may be a good idea. I have an Otterbox and the music is a welcome relief from the boring laps. But, what really needs inventing is an ear bud that stays in without a swim cap on. I just can't wear that swim cap. It is worse than being bored.

A spinnerval type workout when time is short might be of use in life.

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Twitter @achtervolger

Thats a great point. Even if you dont have a workout, going out for a run is so much more tolerable if you have music. This concept is even more true for swimming since there's no scenery.

I definitely recommend spinnervals to anyone who may be short on time or lives in an area with frequently inclimate weather. 45 mins, great workout, done

As far as earbuds go, check out Swimman. He is who I am working with. He waterproofs the iPods from the inside as well as the headphones so you dont have to have those rubber covers that tend to slide out. plus, no bulky case on the iPod.

keep the advice coming!

I like my swimp3. You are going to get crap from the elitist snobs here. You should read the things they write.

What do you mean exactly? As in the elitists consider it impure to train with music? or find it not to be feasible. I have heard great things as well. Our product will be adaptable to any mp3 player also.

Impure is not the word.

I got an ipod shuffle for Christmas. My wife bought it from swimman.com. Its small, about 1X1" and hold a lot of songs. It has a nice set-up to fit on your goggles. The ear pieces were not as good as I wanted so I used silicone and made custom ear pieces and now I listen to my tunes while I swim all the time. It really nice for my long swim. It water proof and easy to use.

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Dan Kennison

facebook: @triPremierBike
http://www.PremierBike.com
http://www.PositionOneSports.com

Notice I referred to Swimman a couple posts ago. He is my primary contact in getting this product to the public. What are your thoughts, especially now that you have a waterproof iPod, on downloading various workouts to give you motivation and instruction while you train?

It would be fine but the problem is that the ipod that they use is the "shuffle model" It holds alot of memory and is super small and light weight. In fact, I can not feel it at all. it selects songs from your list in random order. It is not like a regular iPod that you go to a menu and select from a play list of what ever. It just plays your songs randomly.

On of the great things about it is that they waterproof all the buttons, in fact you don't use them any more. When you are done with your swim, you un-plug the cord from the ear-piece and in 90 seconds the ipod shuts off. This is to keep buttons that are used a lot from getting "un-water proofed" from use.

They really did not work for me until I made the custome earpieces though.

Hope that helps.

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Dan Kennison

facebook: @triPremierBike
http://www.PremierBike.com
http://www.PositionOneSports.com

I agree with you. Its great for swimming as its so light and not in your way at all. but, there is an option on the shuffle to either play songs in a random order or to play them in the order uploaded from your playlist. I usually have this option on when I workout in the gym because I coordinate the cadence of the songs to what I am doing that day. Makes the workout more enjoyable.

With my product, each interval in the workout is its own "song" so that, ultimately, you can control how fast or slow you do the workout. If you miss an interval, the music will continue to play until you hit the wall, take the rest you need, and hit "next" to start the next one.

I know swimman is working on developing a more effective set of earbuds, that seems to be a problem some people who dont wear swim caps are having.

Your feedback definitely helps. More! More!

i think this is a great idea. I have an otterbox as well and havent used it to swim in two years because of the terrible discomfort of the earbuds under a cap to keep them in/ wires pissin me off. My pool has music piped in underwater which is cool but the soundtrack usually pretty lame so....

Better earbud system and a goal oriented workout regimen is great idea for me. I'm a non-swimmer who has gone from a 2:05 hundred HIM pace to a 1:35 HIM pace and is stuck there like mud, maybe would push me that extra bit....I aspire to move from best of the worst to worst of the best one day :)

If you can get that done it would be nice. The instructions on the current swimman say "don't change the button from random- to- order of play" or the thing may not be water proof anymore. Personally I don't like the random play. I use my regular iPod more like you do especially while running. I like to sequence the music to get me motivated. I hope your idea works out.

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Dan Kennison

facebook: @triPremierBike
http://www.PremierBike.com
http://www.PositionOneSports.com

I will take to Charles about having the option to either play songs randomly or in the pre-determined playlist order. The latter is fairly important to my product so you arent skipping around to different parts of the swim workout every time you hit the "next" button

Again, thanks for the input. I will take this all into consideration and put together something you will hopefully find very beneficial

Sounds like you are on the right track and are definitely a candidate for this product. I really am working hard on getting the software underway that allows you to change your goal times, customize your interval times etc...all within the framework of a coached set. This part though is pretty expensive so I am working within the basic framework for now which is seemingly very popular, but more for the beginner, intermediate swimmers who dont yet focus on every statistic.

And, as I told the last poster, I will speak to Charles about remedying the uncomfortable earbud situation.

Thanks!

One more thought...Do you ever workout with a pull-buoy? After I switched from competitive swimming to strictly triathlon, I started using a pull-buoy much much more often in practice. This allowed me to focus more effort of developing my shoulders since, with a wetsuit as most of my races required, kicking isnt as important to keep you afloat so much as it is to ward off oncomers!

Sounds like it could be an amazing product. Having been raised a "purist" swimmer running workouts on intervals with specific goals in mind and then having made the switch to the "unstructured" triathlon training for a few years - basically doing what I wanted when I wanted, training mostly long swims/distances just for technique purposes and to keep the "feel" and very little time-dependency - I think a product like yours could help many triathletes that don't participate in Master's and/or don't feel comfortable with coaches. Nothing could replace the impact of those two things on a swimmer's ability, mind you, but something to just make swimming a bit more tolerable to most would certainly help people improve.

As someone who just started trying out a master's group (2x/week) I'm really relishing the structure and freedom of someone else putting together the workout and keeping track of intervals. I'm still skeptical of my ROI on my tri swimming, but it feels good to be back in the pool turning and burning on timed intervals with someone else saying "go". I'm not sure your product would really have much impact for those types of swimmers (the master's devotees). But for the long Open Water stuff, for entertainment purposes on the long unstructured swims, and for someone who has long had a super-long/slow turnover, your product could be a life-saver for my mental state. I've never swam with piped-in music or an iPod-type product, I'd be interested to see what it did to my turnover or stroke mechanics.

Keep it up, let us know when it's available.

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AW

But for the long Open Water stuff, for entertainment purposes on the long unstructured swims, and for someone who has long had a super-long/slow turnover, your product could be a life-saver for my mental state. I've never swam with piped-in music or an iPod-type product, I'd be interested to see what it did to my turnover or stroke mechanics.

2 christmases ago, i swam 5k every day for a week in the incredibly boring ocean water in costa rica. i had a 1st generation swimp3. i do not know if i could have done those swims without music. the water was brown. not nasty brown, just not-see-through-brown. the music helped me pick up the pace from time to time, helped mark the passing of time, and these days, some of those tracks bring back instant memories of glancing up out of the water and seeing the land.

i don't need workouts on my (now 2nd gen) swimp3 ... music will do nicely, thank you very much. otoh, a free workout download to try out the effect ... i'd definitely give it a try. might need SC and LC variants, though.

I did a 40 minute swim an hour ago and was listening to my music and thinking about how a coach in my ear would work out. I think it would be very interesting and would like to give it a try if you are sucessful.

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Dan Kennison

facebook: @triPremierBike
http://www.PremierBike.com
http://www.PositionOneSports.com

1. I don't know how you will calibrate this for distance.
2. you need to have some sort of way to interact with the ipod that is similar to nike's Nike+ wrist band (but actually works). So if I miss my time, it can somehow work to calibrate to me swimming slower or resting longer. It might be useful for it to just call out certain intervals, like every 40 seconds, 30 seconds, 10 seconds, 5, etc.
3. the only thing a swim coach is good for is telling you what to do next and calling out your times when you hit the wall...and telling you when to go again.
4. i've never tried the current waterproof ipod devices but they get pretty poor reviews.
5. I enjoy the updates from Nike+, but I hate the workouts from Joan Benoit Samuelson or Cassius. They are so lame. But I guess you might be able to sell stuff like that to beginners?
6. It would be great if you could create a downloadable database of workouts that are called out on the ipod as you go. These should be highly customizable.
7. There should be a way to do broken sets.

I can't think of anything else but I'm certain that I left something out.

If you can make this thing comfortable, people might run with it for the offchance that they get caught in the rain.

I have a SwimMan'd shuffle (love it), and you can switch from shuffle to regular sequential order, but you have to do it from iTunes. You can't use the switch on the ipod once it's waterproofed.

As for headphones, I ended up making my own by taking some earbuds that fit into my ear canal and sealed well (the "sound isolating" kind), and sealing the wire connections and "air ports" with wetsuit glue. The only issue is that the cord is a bit long, but I just wind it up and tuck it under the goggle strap.

I like the concept of "spinervals for swimming"; just wondering how you deal with different speed swimmers. Seems like you'd need one track for the guys who do their hundreds on the 1:30, another for those at 1:45, etc. You chose your speed the same way you choose your lane.

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ECMGN Therapy Silicon Valley:
Depression, Neurocognitive problems, Dementias (Testing and Evaluation), Trauma and PTSD, Traumatic Brain Injury (TBI)

You just hit the nail on the head in terms of my target demographic. Not everyone can afford a full time coach or has the flexibility in their schedule to make master's swimming every day. But if you need more than the "do what I can when I can" mentality that so many athletes adopt (myself included at one point), this could be a solution

I have to say though that maybe you underestimate the ability of a product like this to do more than simply motivate but also provide technique instruction and effective workouts. I trained for over 10 years by some of the nation's best coaches, coaches that have sent several of my teammates to the Olympics. (Even this last year, Caroline Burckle took home a Bronze medal in 4X200 free relay) With their knowledge and expertise coupled with the motivational factor, I think most people can achieve a pretty deadly workout.

as far as underwater music goes, personally didn't care for it. the sound quality is poor and is cadence is too random to be effective.

thanks for taking time to respond. once again, any and all feedback is greatly appreciated.

Ill be sure to let you know when the revision of the prototype is complete.

Thanks!