you must be in the next hotel room, because the speed of stink from the deposit I made just blew through this place like the speed of light... in fact, I think the "speed of stink" from sushi may be the fastest ever recorded. I'm going to the wind tunnel next week to test this and see what my functional threshold is for speed of stink (FTSoS). I think I may have just PR'd, I at least made the podium. The seat was NOT too high, I was in pretty much the aero position and my set up was clean when I started.

OK...back to whatever you guys were chatting about, Lance / best triathlete cyclist or something. BTW...whatever.

Just wanted all to know that I took a dump and the spread of stankness (trademark) was epic...

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ADW

I agree wholeheartedly. BUT, as I wrote (way to verbosely) in my reply above, I don't think that someone's ability to ride away "...not measuring himself to be sure he is able to run afterwards" is really relevant. It's someone's ability to ride away "while measuring himself to be sure he is able to run afterwards." E.g., Normann Stadler. And Kienle.

Two comments, one if you are going to measure best cylist in the context you suggest, then its not kienle, its Crowie, after all if you can't swim well enough to set up the bike to set up the run then your bike/run is irrelevant. But for the sake of arguement we do commonly discuss who is the best swimmer or runner or cyclist, outside of the context that the current WC has to be the best.

2nd, LA clearly isn't the best runner in tri but I don't think his fast bike splits are impacting his run. His run times haven't been poor considering his recent run history.

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Styrrell

Does your analogy/opinion change when/if Lance wins a race? Just say Florida 70.3 for example? Judging by the list recently posted, and 'if' he is still planning to race (I don't know), I would say that there is a very good possibility that Lance could win.

I don't know that 'absurdly good at one' and 'suck at the other two' necessarily go together in this case. Bjorn swam well. Bjorn rode very well. Bjorn won some races, but he wasn't one of the best triathlon cyclists? Chris didn't swim as well, biked at least as well, and won some races, but yet he's not one of the best triathlon cyclists? Was Chris' 2nd place at IMH not a finish that ranks him as one of the best triathlon cyclists since he didn't win? Normann in his last win won not necessarily because of his ride, but because he was a LOT closer to the front at the end of the swim...as in on the tail end of the lead pack, somewhere that he hadn't been in the past. So, the field had to decide do we go now or do we roll the dice and risk 17 minutes again. And, that was with a field of men that was arguably not as deep as it is now...when it was 'relatively easier' I would wager to get away on the bike.

Yes, three races is a bit quick to make a 'triathlon' judgement. But, so is 1 race when Sebastian out rode and then out ran Lance. And, delusional is a very strong word for both sides. This isn't quite yet a HED vs. ZIPP argument, though you do seem quite passionate about it when this topic arises...insert smiley face here.

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Brandon Marsh - Website | @BrandonMarshTX | RokaSports | 1stEndurance | ATC Bikeshop |

Chrissie, LVL.

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TriRaceBook.com
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Hawaii Qualification Analysis

You're reading this wrong. Just because LVL & Crowie smoked it--doesn't they are better prepared. Both of them were younger, more experienced triathletes overall (despite Lance's Pro Title at what--17?) Both of them had been racing the years right up to Kona, while Lance has sat out for 25 years. My point is (which you misread), is that the homework/recon Lance has been doing (and that is only what you see published but is likely way more than any of us will know)...will be beyond what LVL and Crowie had done. LA is a student and performing micro-analysis of not only himself, the course, his competition, but will use whatever means are at his disposal to prepare himself. All this does not mean he will outperform any of the mentioned athletes, as he has about as many advantages over the pros as he does disadvantages (one mainly being age & lack of recent triathlon experience leading up to this year). We'll all just have to wait & see I guess.

Sure, if Lance wins Florida - or Honu - I think that you can certainly make a much stronger case than when he has only one race with the fastest bike split and zero wins. I don't think that he will have improved any as a cyclist between now and then, but right now, folks are basing their opinions simply on "potential." Potential is great and all, but it isn't the same as results. Now, I'm not saying my opinion will change - we are talking still about one race - but I do think that a more valid argument can be made after a win than can be made right now.

As a somewhat related example, I think there are those people that look at Kona 2011 as proof that Mirinda and the other women had closed the gap on Chrissie. I, personally, do not agree with that, because Chrissie was pretty clearly not 100%, but at the end of the day, Chrissie won by a pretty slim margin. And regardless of any asterisks/ifs/ands/buts/yets/etc, that's the reality.

I also wasn't implying - or didn't mean to imply - that any of the athletes mentioned fell into the category of "absurdly good // suck at the other two." I was just saying that, if (reductio ad absurdum) Fabian Cancellara decided to do a triathlon, should he be considered the best cyclist in try? Kai Hundertmark was about as close as an example of this as we've had in the pro ranks. He swam over 40min for a half-Ironman, rode his was from WAY out of contention to just out of contention, and then ran not very well. But certainly in a standalone bike race, he would have crushed pretty much everyone (dude was 5th at WC, as well as several other very impressive performances).

I get passionate about this because I think that the general opinion is rather derogatory towards pro triathletes and their opinions. I think there is a sense among single sport athletes - and single sport fans - that triathletes are really just second rate athletes who couldn't make it at any one of the single sports, so they decided to become a triathlete. I.e., it's not that triathletes ride slow because they are pacing for the run, it's just because they are shitty cyclists. I think a lot of people expected Lance to roll into T2 with light-years between him and the next closest guys. The fact that this isn't happening seems to be confusing these people, who then posit that it must be some sort of "mind game." I'd just appreciate it if people actually recognized that triathlon is, itself, a single sport and that the athletes who focus on it are damn good at it.

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"Non est ad astra mollis e terris via." - Seneca | rappstar.com | FB - Rappstar Racing | IG - @jordanrapp

1) I certainly think you can make a case for Crowie being the best cyclist in the sport. Certainly, IMO, you can make a stronger case for Crowie than for Lance. However, that's not exactly within the context I suggested. I said - specifically - it's the guy with the fastest bike split who also wins races. That's Kienle. It's not Crowie. I never said the current WC has to be the best. Craig Walton was a prime example that I mentioned, and he never won a World Championship (though he might have won one in aquathon; I can't remember).

2) I agree. I don't think Lance is riding too hard - as a %FTP. I just think that he's finding running off the bike harder than expected. That's absolutely pure speculation however...

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"Non est ad astra mollis e terris via." - Seneca | rappstar.com | FB - Rappstar Racing | IG - @jordanrapp

I wont ask - I know you are married. (and neither of us are 'that way')

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What if the Hokey Pokey is what it is all about?

One could argue, based on this quote that Crowie is the best biker in tri right now. Look at his ride in Kona last year and then look at his run that followed it. If Crowie is coming into T2 in second place, like he did in Kona, everyone else should be shitting bricks.

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How does Danny Hart sit down with balls that big?

D'oh, I clearly did not read previous comments.

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How does Danny Hart sit down with balls that big?

Rapp - I know we agree on this issue, but semantics matter.

The question:
-Who is the best cyclist in triathlon when factoring in the swim and the run?

Is asked all the time in the form:
-Who is the best triathlete?

The question:
-Who is the best cyclist in triathlon?

This is not the same in the minds of most people. It's a more focused question. We all know you guys have relative strengths and weaknesses in each discipline. I think these questions are meant to ask, if you put all the professional triathletes in a pure TT, who whould win? or a pure road running race, who would win?, etc, etc.

Anyway, the horse is clearly dead.

I don't think Lance has yet demonstrated that his ability as a cyclist changes the dynamic of a race in a meaningful way.

Interesting comment considering all the speculation here, media attention, and multiple comments by multiple triathletes in multiple venues. If Lance's presence in triathlon hasn't caused a seismic shift in the pro ranks, I'd be surprised. The dynamics of the race must change because every pro knows that Lance isn't putting even 90% into the bike leg in these pre-Kona races. Knowing that Lance at 100% effort on the bike leg will do serious time damage, the other pros must press on the bike or risk losing. If, for instance, Lance bikes 4:10 at Kona, how many guys, knowing he's say, 15-30 minutes ahead on the run, are NOT going to be psychologically affected? I'd say, at that point in the race, only 2 or 3 guys will have a remote chance of catching him unless he melts down on the marathon. Anyway, this is a huge shift in race dynamics, IMHO. Lance is a major game changer in many ways, not the least of which will be the uptick in popularity of triathlon, and the pro thinking about the race. It's all good so far....

Just my humble opinion and I'm slow, old, and way under the Lavender Room's average IQ. ;)

-Robert

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"How wonderful it is that nobody need wait a single moment before starting to improve the world." ~Anne Frank

So, Chip, let me make sure I have this correct. First, Lance wasn't as good as the top AGers. Now, your position is that Lance can't beat Zach Ruble on the bike because you have seen Zach ride with Cat 1/2 cyclists and beat them?

If you want to be taken seriously on your points, you really need to start developing better arguments.

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team blog: http://snappletriteam.com/?page_id=10

Actually, I think that it would be your reading skills. I never said Lance was better - I said that Lance was not "that" much better. I also did not infer he could not beat Zach - I did say that I have ridden with others (McDonald /Rapp for instance, and they were the instance). That thought he may "beat" them - he would not be able to put anything over a half hour, if not far less on them. Now, if you would like to re-read you may get my point.

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What if the Hokey Pokey is what it is all about?

The same Zach Ruble who Lance out rode by over 12 minutes at St. Croix? Well Zach did beat lance's run by 1 second so there you go,,,,,but not so great on the swim.

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Genetics load the gun, lifestyle pulls the trigger.

seriously......the......horse......is.......DEAD!

This is what you wrote:

Freaking what? Please. Lance could certainly NOT ride away from Bjorn, Ruble and many many other tri guys, period.



Proof is in the pudding not what you want to make it after the fact.

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team blog: http://snappletriteam.com/?page_id=10

didn't Andy said: Nothing that I could do...

I don't about you but that is pretty telling IMO

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The entire event (IM) is like "death by 1000 cuts" and the best race is minimizing all those cuts and losing less blood than the other guy. - Dev

Read two posts up.....I had not even seen Zachs results...proof is in the pudding.

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What if the Hokey Pokey is what it is all about?

Here are the two - now, remember, Zach is no McDonald on the bike....I would not call that a "blow out", but again, that is Zach - not Bjorn or some of the others. Yet, oddly - that adds up to about a half an hour on a 112.....

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What if the Hokey Pokey is what it is all about?

So your argument is 16 minutes in a half ironman and ~30 minutes in an ironman isn't blowing guys out of the water?

I'm sorry, I don't speak R10C language. Exactly how does the fact that Zach biked 16 minutes slower than Lance at St. Croix provide any support to your original position that Lance "could certainly NOT ride away from" Zach in a race?

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team website: http://snappletriteam.com/

team blog: http://snappletriteam.com/?page_id=10

Lance did NOT win the race. The point people are trying to make is that Lance is "that" much better on the bike. He isnt. He is mortal. Comparing him to Zach is laughable, I mentioned that Zach is a beast on the bike - and yet, not the strongest Tri guy on the bike. Lance (was) the strongest person on the bike (at least at TdF). The thought that Lance is "that" much better than the Tri folks is first off an insult to the Tri folks - but also simply not true. Lance had the fastest bike split - that however did not win him the race now did it? He also was not "that" much faster than the second split, now was he?

As I pointed out in this very thread with Rapp's post - leave it to the internet to take things out of the context that they were in. Some of you all are so hell bent on the mentutia of this drivel that you start to believe that Lance is something super human - he isnt,.

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What if the Hokey Pokey is what it is all about?

So did Lance blow THIS guy out of the water? Seems that he is a dedicated Tri guy - not a bike racer.....he also did not win the race. He also happens to be older than Lance. I also doubt that he was sandbagging or plotting or planning - he was simply racing.

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What if the Hokey Pokey is what it is all about?

I think this post on Stephane Poulat is known as deflection, correct?

Remember, what we are discussing is your claim that Lance could not ride Zach Ruble off his wheel. Let's just stick to that point.

Your points in support of that position so far have been:

(1) You have personally seen Zach ride and he is a beast.
(2) Zach has DESTROYED local Cat 1/2 guys.
(3) After said destruction Zach has ridden 50 more mile and gone for a run.
(4) The bike that you saw Zach ride on had every other damn part broken.
(4) Zach lost 16 minutes on the bike to Lance at St. Croix.

Like I said before, if you want your points to be taken seriously you need to start developing better arguments.

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team blog: http://snappletriteam.com/?page_id=10