No.

(Athletes have all different reasons for equipment selection. Your obsession with tearing other people down is boring - read some more Seneca.)

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'It never gets easier, you just get crazier.'

At least Sagan knows where his meal ticket comes from. (Pic from Bikeradar )

Gosh I never considered this. Thanks for the insight.

I'm still waiting for you to weigh in on the new 'Premier Bike'! :)

You can't help yourself, can you?

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Dan Empfield
aka Slowman

I hope to have something positive to report about one of these new superbikes, because I've ordered one. I won't say which one, but I really hope it doesn't disappoint.

I don't mind intellectually honest criticism. But you mention athletes NOT riding disc brake bikes, deciding on their behalf it's because they're slower, omitting to mention the winner and bike course record setter (?) who went on to record a pretty fast run as well, were on disc brake bikes unless I'm mistaken (in Cozumel).

I think it's fine to make the comment you did, but without mentioning what else happened last weekend means you're sharing an agenda rather than a data point.

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Dan Empfield
aka Slowman

Because there's already a thread about the P5X in Cozumel.

http://forum.slowtwitch.com/...ost=6153241#p6153241

But but but....you only like the P5X because you have an agenda, and/or a vested interest.....

At least according to some.

Say you don't like the look, say you'll buy something else, but criticizing like you do something you've never tried.....well I'm sure there's a name for that.

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I ride:
Cervelo - P-Series/R3
GT - Sensor Carbon Expert

Supporters - Flo Cycling, Mount Bikes

Any thread on the bike underneath the guy who crushed the course? If you think disc brake bikes can't go fast and you're cherry picking anecdotes, I think it's only fair to add to the "dataset" of anecdotes. Don't you?

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Dan Empfield
aka Slowman

Let me see if I understand you. I'm saying that if you want to form a thesis based on anecdotes it's only fair to use all the relevant anecdotes

Your response is that I'm sticking up for a particular style of bike because I'm on the take?

Does that mean I'm a traitor to the cause because I liked the bike I wrote about today? Or am I just always on the take? Unless I don't like a product? I want to make sure I understand your thesis here.

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Dan Empfield
aka Slowman

In the absence of power data from those performances -- and even then, the circus that is the pro race imperils clean analysis of that data -- the results themselves mean nothing.

Here's a few data points:

-Tom Zirbel recently smashed the hour record riding the Diamondback Serios. Does anyone actually think that bicycle is fast, or even among the top ten fastest? By the way, Diamondback launched their new moonshot on the back of a 'white paper' that was essentially a marketing catalogue with a single chart indexing the Andean against the (literally) incredible aero data they previously published for the Serios. Really powerful data.
-The OG P5 is the fastest (broadly tested) time trial bike in history. And Cervelo releases a successor product that they admit is only a couple dozen grams of drag faster than the original P5 when it is loaded down with some unconscionable amount of nutrition and kit. And they don't even release the white paper describing that testing coterminous with their marketing release. They still haven't. But I'm the one who has an agenda not backed by data, not Cervelo.

Here's my agenda. I think it sucks that we aren't getting faster bikes because a few of these companies have decided that improved braking in TT's and Tri's is something the majority of the market wants while trying to convince the minority of the market that these bikes are also faster. I don't believe them.

What you fail to understand is that there is a contingent of us that simply does not think this transition is progress. This isn't an advancement to us. It's not tantamount to DVD to Blu Ray, 6 speed to 7 speed to 10 speed, or all of the other poor analogs you throw around to muddy this discussion. I would sell my 2x drivetrain tomorrow if SRAM had a 10-36T 12 speed Eagle group for the roads. That is not the same thing. But I'm not getting rid of my rim braking TT bike because Cannondale and Cervelo are selling us lies that say these new bikes are faster than the ones that came before them.

Fine. I have no problem with your last post. It's your first post that is complete horseshit.

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Dan Empfield
aka Slowman

Sorry Dan, I replied to you but was poking fun at the people who seem to think you have some sort of agenda re the P5X, or some arrangement with Cervelo. My sarcasm didn't come across too well. My bad.

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I ride:
Cervelo - P-Series/R3
GT - Sensor Carbon Expert

Supporters - Flo Cycling, Mount Bikes

I don't think Cervelo are telling the market that they need disc brakes. I think they've said to their designers design is the best bike you can regardless of anything else. And the P5X is the result.

In regards to 'loaded down....' most long course athletes carry nutrition with them no? And this provides a way to do that. Moreover it gives you a place for other kit should it be needed.

Lastly - choice.!.!.!.! Choose to buy it. Choose not to buy it. It to criticise a company for giving us choice..?.? Really..?.? SMH

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I ride:
Cervelo - P-Series/R3
GT - Sensor Carbon Expert

Supporters - Flo Cycling, Mount Bikes

Seven years ago, Specialized put this on a one-off aero tandem bike:



The best Cervelo could come up with was this ugliness?


Yeah, the Specialized was almost certainly cable actuated rather than hydraulic, but if you're building the P5x from scratch with completely new, proprietary aero bars, you can't figure out a way to incorporate a full-on hydraulic system?

Now this I agree with. The brakes do need work. That said according to Cervelo they used these as there were no hydraulic brake levers available yet. Once they areni expect this to be sorted PDQ.

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I ride:
Cervelo - P-Series/R3
GT - Sensor Carbon Expert

Supporters - Flo Cycling, Mount Bikes

Oh and the results don't mean nothing.

The winner won on a bike that gave him one of the fastest bike splits and he was able to run a pretty good marathon off the back of it, as did the guy who posted the actual fastest bike split.

All relevant, facts. Would it be nice to see power data? Yes it would. But this isn't a perfect world. What we can say is both bikes were fast, under world class athletes, and comfortable enough to be able to run quickly and efficiently afterwards.

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I ride:
Cervelo - P-Series/R3
GT - Sensor Carbon Expert

Supporters - Flo Cycling, Mount Bikes

Ah, well, MY bad. We have our own version of Godwin's law here, where all threads like these inevitably lead to our being accused of holding opinions for financial reasons only ;-)

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Dan Empfield
aka Slowman

I didn't say this.



Yeah and it's not a good result if it's not faster than an intelligently configured predecessor.



Yes, they do. From the Cervelo case study:



Look at those fits! I think slowman just threw up in his mouth a little bit.

As I've said several times
A) I love disc brakes, particularly hydraulic discs
B) I believe we are in phase one of disc brakes on road and tri bikes. I think there is lots of development potential with rotors and calipers. For me, it's key to get discs on the bike in the first place. Then, it's easy enough to swap out to a phase 2 or phase 3 disc package when the time comes.

While I'm a huge Cervelo fan, and a disc brake fan, and even tho I can see why the P5X brake looks like it does, I do have to admit that it's a relatively clunky looking solution for now.

Bring on phase 2 discs!

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TriDork

"Happiness is a myth. All you can hope for is to get laid once in a while, drunk once in a while and to eat chocolate every day"

Haven't they used the cable - hydro system here to allow ease of breaking down the bike for travel?
It's pretty easy to break a cable with some nifty joiner thingamebobs than it is to carve up a hydro system and reinstall it with all that entails...

Like I said, I can see why, but it still looks clunky.

The caliper and fluid reservoir need to be integrated, smoothed and generally sent to industrial design school.

I'm sure it works great tho

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TriDork

"Happiness is a myth. All you can hope for is to get laid once in a while, drunk once in a while and to eat chocolate every day"

Given that the Specialized tandem was an unrideable styling exercise, I don't think you can really hold those brakes up as an example of what is possible.