ISM has moved away from using that word, it wasn't a product name per se just a branding tagline.

---

Anne Barnes
ABBikefit, Ltd
FIST/SICI/FIST DOWN DEEP
X/Y Coordinator
abbikefit@gmail.com

Adamo Island Saddles is owned by ISM.

Looks like they used plenty of stock photos and econonmy in developing their website. And they've definitely met corporate HQ's diversity and inclusivity target.

Might be a half decent budget tri saddle though.

Also it's just a front wing away from being an F1 nosecone...

MattyK wrote:

..... they've definitely met corporate HQ's diversity and inclusivity target....

Why on earth would you come up with this comment?
Seriously - It's a bicycle saddle website. It's not like your comment is even vaguely topical.
There are 3 stages to producing that comment, and the end result does not, in my opinion, reflect well on you.

1. You noticed they used more diverse models than might be typical of cycling websites you normally see. Nothing wrong with that, but why would you think that odd. They're targeting these at casual cyclists "whether you’re hitting the park, the beach, or just tooling around the neighborhood". So it makes sense they wouldn't just portray the athlete in their 20s-30s that most performance cycling oriented sites do.
2. You're cynical enough to assume the only reason a company might do that is because they were directed to do so from on high as part of a "diversity and inclusivity" initiative. It may be true, it may not, but the fact you've drawn that conclusion suggests it's necessary.
3. You thought it was worth commenting on the above and thought it was reasonable to mock the website on that basis.

And finally it doesn't seem to have occurred to you that your comment is in itself, a big part of the problem when it comes to "diversity and inclusivity". If we live in a world where you feel the need to comment that a website shows anything other than white men, there's a problem.


I really don't understand the mentality that produces such a remark.

jesus....

I just wanted to say thanks for stepping up and articulating all this. Well thought out, well positioned and well explained. And I get that people are also cynical when companies intentionally go out off their way to show inclusivity.

When I was in the military in the 80's I was ordered to show up in my scarlet uniform (Canada) for a recruiting photoshoot. I had a battle with my commanding officer that I did not want to go for that shoot. I said, "Pick me for the photoshoot, because I am a top performer, not because what I look like...there are a few guys and girls who are better performers who I can nominate". In the end, I was ordered to go and ended up with my pic, along with a woman and a "regular white guy" on the side of a recruiting 18 wheeler van.

I am sure many in the public looked at that image and thought, "looks like the Armed Forces are trying to fake diversity" and in fairness, they were also walking the walk in many ways. So as much as I battled it at the time, it was the right thing to do in the 80's even if it was forced and I was in the other camp because I hated when anyone implied I was there because of how I looked vs academic, military and athletic performances (where I held my own near the top of the class on most fronts).

Its why I like sport. You get your timing chip and it does not matter what you look like. You get results based on time on the clock.

https://adamoislandsaddles.com/about-us/


I guess they just trying to target this branding to more casual persons. It could be a good idea, maybe it's easier to sell these to casual persons than a performance brand.

Ah, I did not see that. Interesting.

lol...touchy, go get em tiger

Touchy?

No, not touchy. Tired of listening to ignorance.
What would influence you to either take my comments on board, or come up with a position of your own, rather than simply writing them off as the result if some touchy crusader? Because I'm neither. But I'm not afraid to think or to call out assholery.

Are you simply a fan of the status quo?
What about my previous post warrants your inane drivel?

Oh and feel free to treat those as actual questions. It's not rhetoric....

I care exactly zero about the topic at hand, but I think your rant is funny and yes indicates you're a bit touchy, as well as your response to me indicates. Maybe you have some issues you're dealing with and I can understand that...best of luck :)

others have said it, this saddle is from the folks at ISM.

they understand not every bike in the stable is a speed weapon. many of us also own a hybrid, townie cruiser, fixie or beater MTB. this saddle is the answer for that.

---

Lars Finanger
Odyssey SwimRun

Inclusiveness and diversity are great in all aspects of life. No arguing that. Things have improved and continue to improve for the benefit of everyone, regardless of race or social background.

But as others in this thread have noted, sometimes "higher ups" in various organizations force the inclusiveness and/or diversity issue for fear of appearing a certain way to a certain audience. Have you watched television recently? Seems every married couple in television advertisements are depicted as a bi-racial couple, despite the fact that they statistically make up a relatively small percentage of married couples. Nothing wrong with it, but obviously it is forced by that company's marketing department. Some of these companies are truly afraid of depicting a white married couple living in the 'burbs, simply because it might anger a minority.

I think maybe his comment was insensitive given the current climate, but who are we to judge and characterize him as ignorant or racist? The justice movement we are seeing has been targeting people for even the vaguest comment about race or inclusiveness. "Well, you aren't black, so you must not understand." Or, "you didn't write a post of social media saying you support BLM, so clearly you don't care about this issue."

Or in the matter of this specific thread, equating a seemingly cynical comment with purebred racism (he apparently only wants to view websites depicting white people?)

What is it about, I think, a fairly reasoned post, that makes it a rant?

What about it is funny?
You'll have to define "touchy" for me, because I simpy saw an ignorant comment and addressed it. It holds no specific relevance to me aside from finding the attitude cavalier and potentially destructive.

Perhaps I have some issues?
Yeah sure, if the touchy comment doesn't cut it, suggest the guy's got some psychological problems. There must be some reason he's n oit towing the party line huh?

I hope someday you figure out that some people actually care about society as a whole, not just things that effect them personally. And, some people say what they think.

I didn't really say or suggest he was racist. I did suggest there was something wrong with both his attitude and the norms, when he thinks it notable and worthy of ridicule when a company has pictures of a variety of ages, sexes, and ethnicities on their webpage.

I struggle to understand the need for everything to have a minority groups represented these days. If I was in Asia I wouldn't expect adds or tv shows to include white people, same in Africa.

Marketing by its very nature is to target your market-so what ever the majority is. Should I feel discriminated against if a women's fashion brand doesn't include males wearing their dresses?

Inclusion is great but shouldn't be forced or tokenism.

What's forced, here? This is a saddle clearly marketed towards the recreational crowd, with styling that suggests to me it's geared towards women.

So they have some women on the Web page. And an elderly black couple.

It's "forced" because it's not all white men?

Like A_i said, it's very peculiar to make that statement. It wouldn't have even occurred to me to think about it, looking at the Web page.



The U.S. is a far more of a "melting pot" than most Asian countries. ~40% "not white." Probably not wise for any business to straight ignore the 40%. Most people the melting pot aspect a good thing. Some don't.

I wasn't referring to the ad, I haven't even seen it. I'm talking in general

You're not talking about the ad in the subject line that everyone else is talking about. Gotcha. Carry on.

I don't think everything does have to represent minority groups, but everything should represent people in general and should not exclude minorities. I think that's pretty uncontroversial?

I don't see any reason to suggest the ad referred to in this discussion is forced or tokenism. All discussion of diversity and inclusion only came about because one of the posters ridiculed the webpage for tokenism, apparently just on the basis that it uses a diverse mix of models.

My one shop anecdote is that about 15% of new sales are now e-bikes.

Of that 15% sales, 90% of the customers are 50+ and haven’t walked into a bike store in 20+ years.

99% of the problems in dealing with these new to cycling customers are shitty stock saddle related.

Definitely not for me but I am actually really interested in this saddle for newer/casual/older customers.

I actually didn’t think about the diversity thing looking at the adds but this new customer group is a lot different and I would suggest more diverse than perhaps what we are used to seeing at races.

Maurice

I'm all for new and different saddle types.

I occasionally get problems with saddles sores, which can be quite limiting and seriously annoying.

I've tried all sorts of bibs and saddles as well as various bike fits to ameliorate it - all of it helps, probably by changing the pressure points.

I was surprised to find that my favorite saddle which I've had next to no saddle sores for, is a super-squishy saddle I got cheaply on Amazon. Contrary to what the advice advocating 'firm' or even 'hard' saddles are, the squishy saddle works best for me and I notice zero loss in performance using it. It does, however weigh more than the compact saddles, for the weight weenies.

I haven't had any sores with this squishy saddle (yet) but I suspect I will get one down the road, and having a different saddle shape like a cheaper Adamo seems like it could be useful to change the pressure points,

Hi. Firstly, my apologies for any offience caused. That wasn't the point of the comment. I have no problem with the use of a diverse range of models itself - if indeed they were models for the product, which I am sure none of them are. There's no visible use of the product itself in those images, and visible use of another saddle in at least one picture. So I can only conclude that the entire photo set is from a stock image provider.

That, plus the spelling mistake in the subtitle of the front page, plus the generally cringy early-2000's web design, plus the use of semi-anonymous, cherry-picked "reviews" as the basis of their quality metrics, basically sets the entire site up for ridicule.

Worth noting that the two front saddle prongs are joined. ISM has always made a big deal about their saddles having prongs that could move independently (it was also something that they had IP protection for, so other brands' prongs had to be attached). It's also one of the reasons ISMs need to use steel rails and are so damn heavy (I love my PN1.1, but it really needs to go on a diet).

---

ECMGN Therapy Silicon Valley:
Depression, Neurocognitive problems, Dementias (Testing and Evaluation), Trauma and PTSD, Traumatic Brain Injury (TBI)