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Any sub 33 10k triathletes out there?
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If you have gone sub 33 for a 10k while training for triathlon I would love to hear how you got there, your 3k/5k/21k time, and a session you're proud of.

Example:

Joe Athlete: I did 32xx after y time of triathlon training. My 5k pr at the time was S min and T sec on a track and my training was blablablabla. I remember this one session where we did 10x1200 with 2min break where I averaged xxxx.

This then translated to a xxx half IM and a yyy full IM, but that was just because [put in your excuse]

It is difficult to make predictions, especially about the future
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Re: Any sub 33 10k triathletes out there? [Schnellinger] [ In reply to ]
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Not me... but a local friend of mine can run sub 32 10Ks... he's a pure runner these days. Here's a site with his PRs.

http://www.grcrunning.com/mark-hopely.html

From his Garmin feed, he appears to be doing a lot of two a days right now... like say a 5 mile run @ 5:24 and then a 6 mile run @ 8:25 pace.
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Re: Any sub 33 10k triathletes out there? [Schnellinger] [ In reply to ]
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Quality over quantity but with a lot of quantity over a several year period. I've run under 33 in an open 10 k many times, and typically go 33mid in an olympic tri the past few years.

No specific sessions, just consistency of 1 to 2 quality runs a week nearly every week for several years. Don't get injured by doing too much too quick. I'm 31 now, and 10 years ago I could only do about 25-35 miles a week before getting hurt, now I can do 40 on top of swimming and biking because of slowly building.

I typically run 1:18~ off the bike in a 70.3 and low 3 in an ironman, but I've always preferred shorter stuff
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Re: Any sub 33 10k triathletes out there? [Schnellinger] [ In reply to ]
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I'll brag a little. In 2018, I ran a 15:15 road 5k, 31:03 road 10k, 1:13 half (in a 70.3), and 2:24 marathon all while triathlon training. I was running 40-50 miles per week average (along with swimming and biking), and a few key workouts I did that I think helped were:

4 x 1 mile repeats in 4:50-4:54
3 x 5k in under 16:20
a few times I did 3 x 10 mins @ 5:20 at the tail end of a 20+ mile long run

Most of my speed sessions were done on a track because I was focusing on speed, not terrain. I'm hoping to drop all those times in 2019.
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Re: Any sub 33 10k triathletes out there? [Conky] [ In reply to ]
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insane speeds. I think there comes a point, where lots of miles or lots of hard sessions will only yield what your genetic make up will allow. I dont quit trying to reach for quick times, but i dont buy into 'anything is possible' mantra. Not to get all negative on you hhaha. But to run sub 33 10k, in a tri no less, is something special.
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Re: Any sub 33 10k triathletes out there? [Schnellinger] [ In reply to ]
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Triathletes running a sub-33 almost certainly had years of running in their legs starting at least in high school and likely in college as well. So unless you have a pure running background and the genetics, good luck.
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Re: Any sub 33 10k triathletes out there? [Conky] [ In reply to ]
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How long have you been running for? I don't consider it bragging when I ask for it. But shoot, those are some amazing times!

@peace 10 years of consistent running seems like a great way to build. Are you planning on going lower?

@UScore I believe you are wrong. And I intend to prove it :)

It is difficult to make predictions, especially about the future
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Re: Any sub 33 10k triathletes out there? [Schnellinger] [ In reply to ]
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I started running almost 10 years ago as a HS freshman, but I didn't start running year round until freshman year of college.
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Re: Any sub 33 10k triathletes out there? [Schnellinger] [ In reply to ]
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Schnellinger wrote:
How long have you been running for? I don't consider it bragging when I ask for it. But shoot, those are some amazing times!

@peace 10 years of consistent running seems like a great way to build. Are you planning on going lower?

@UScore I believe you are wrong. And I intend to prove it :)


I wish you luck. Don't get injured.
Last edited by: USCoregonian: May 22, 19 9:55
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Re: Any sub 33 10k triathletes out there? [Schnellinger] [ In reply to ]
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Schnellinger wrote:
@UScore I believe you are wrong. And I intend to prove it :)

Good luck (as in, I hope you chose the right parents) but I agree with USCOregonian. That kind of speed requires a good pedigree, I've been running consistently for 9 years the last 5 of which have been serious, consistent, injury free, quality training for a mid-38s 10k. I could still improve, especially since I'm more focused on 70.3 training but I would bet my absolute genetic limit is somewhere in the 37s, maybe high 36s.

808 > NYC > PDX
2019: 70.3 Canada, 70.3 WC, IMLou
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Re: Any sub 33 10k triathletes out there? [Schnellinger] [ In reply to ]
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I started running my senior year in high school, got into triathlon a 3 years later.
I don't believe you need a big background, but you need a good deal of talent. I was clearly meant to be a runner, but I was very lazy until college. I've met many guys running these paces who only palyed ball sports until later in life, at some point you've got to have some good genetics too.

One of the mistakes I made early on was not wanting to sacrifice my running speed, I loved having the fastest runs in triathlon pro or age grouper, BUT I've spent the last 4 or 5 years being a lot more consistent in the swim/bike/run balance and my overall times have gone way down while my running has remained steady or gotten a hair faster.
I'd rather swim 55 ride 430 and run 3 than swim 70 ride 5 and run 2:45(not that I could ever run 245 but i think many "runners" think they can and then swim and ride like shit). Hopefully my marathons get faster, but I'm not gonna sacrifice 10minutes in the swim to run 5 minutes faster.
Last edited by: peace242000: May 22, 19 10:58
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Re: Any sub 33 10k triathletes out there? [Schnellinger] [ In reply to ]
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Did a couple of sub 34 (33:47 & 33:27 two years apart) when older than 30 while training for tri's. Raced in track primarily 800M & 1500M at uni and on club (1:50's & 3:50-55's). Ran a bunch of 5K road races at 16:00+/-.

Never trained for 5K & above on the track only the short stuff. Learned pacing there.

Trained for the tri run using fartlek for speed on Tuesdays (30-40 minutes total) and Saturdays (45-55 minutes total). Varying distances and speeds but pushed a lot of speed in Zone 4 (like 60-62 second estimated 400 meters and sub 2:30 estimated 800 meters) for 25-33% of those workouts when training for Olympic. These were continuous runs. Did LSD of 6-8 miles for endurance on Sunday's after 20-25 mile bike for Oly training. Ran every day 4-6 miles in Zone 2 on M, W, R, & F. When running hard days, some of the bikes and swims were varied Zone 2 stuff into Zone 3 for probably 80-90% of the time and 10-20% in Z4. Body could not train in Zone 4 across all 3 legs and stay healthy week after week.

Ran first marathon (sub 2:42) at age 33 on 5 weeks of running only and no more than 50 miles in a week. But that came after a solid tri training for Oly distance all summer using the above workouts.

Did first half IM training starting at age 40. Increased running mileage on the Sat & Sun runs only by 25-40%. The Tuesday & Saturday fartlek runs were slower due to age but the intensity and distance the same. During this same time ran master track meets for three consecutive Junes hovering around 2:05 for 800M and 4:10 1500M so still had some leg speed but raced thru the meet with focus on tri training. Did no intervals on the track, all fartlek on the road or dirt. Increased weekend bike too about the same percentages while weekday stuff said steady at 60-75 minute rides. Also started masters swimming 3x week from being on my own for a decade.

Picked up training for IM's four years later in mid-40's and lost all the track speed capabilities.

Chose fartlek because that's how you race. Chose to train on the roads (or trails) because of the varying terrain and that's the race conditions RD's create for the competitors. Chose fartlek because track intervals got boring after 15+ years of organized track. Most of the college 10K track teammates did their workouts on the road. Their tests always came in the weekend meets.

Can't provide objective workout times and distances to race times and distances because everything was subjective: distances, terrain, intensity, training cycle, times, and whatnot. Ran 15 or so sub 4:50 IM 70.3's (down to in the high teens) over a 15 year period.

Consider fartlek in your workout portfolio. Hope this helps.

https://www.palmtreesahead.com/
https://www.palmtreesahead.com/tactics2faster-new

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Re: Any sub 33 10k triathletes out there? [USCoregonian] [ In reply to ]
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Triathletes running a sub-33 almost certainly had years of running in their legs starting at least in high school and likely in college as well. So unless you have a pure running background and the genetics, good luck. //

I knew a lot of guys from my era that were never runners, and got to 33 or better in just a few years. Hell, Mark Allen got to sub 30 in about 4 or 5 years. Of course we all had pretty decent swim backgrounds, so that in some way acted as a background for overall fitness I guess. It just took a few years to build muscle memory. I got to low 32's in about 5 years from 0 running background, starting running at 22. And I was no natural runner by any means, but I suppose I had good mechanics naturally. To the OP, I found that you can double your 5k time and add a minute for a 10k, and add about 40 seconds a mile to your 10k for a marathon time. Not sure what the tables say, but that was my observations of myself and a few other people...

Oh ya, I was a 25 to 30 mile per week runner, don't ever recall running over 50 miles in a single week. We did not do a lot of big miles, but most all of them were hard and fast..
Last edited by: monty: May 22, 19 11:31
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Re: Any sub 33 10k triathletes out there? [Conky] [ In reply to ]
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Conky wrote:
I'll brag a little. In 2018, I ran a 15:15 road 5k, 31:03 road 10k, 1:13 half (in a 70.3), and 2:24 marathon all while triathlon training. I was running 40-50 miles per week average (along with swimming and biking), and a few key workouts I did that I think helped were:

4 x 1 mile repeats in 4:50-4:54
3 x 5k in under 16:20
a few times I did 3 x 10 mins @ 5:20 at the tail end of a 20+ mile long run

Most of my speed sessions were done on a track because I was focusing on speed, not terrain. I'm hoping to drop all those times in 2019.

Age?
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Re: Any sub 33 10k triathletes out there? [Schnellinger] [ In reply to ]
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Schnellinger wrote:
How long have you been running for? I don't consider it bragging when I ask for it. But shoot, those are some amazing times!

@peace 10 years of consistent running seems like a great way to build. Are you planning on going lower?

@UScore I believe you are wrong. And I intend to prove it :)

Admirable for sure

How old are you?

What is your running background?

I am slow as f running. How I can some day bring it more in line with swim and bike
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Re: Any sub 33 10k triathletes out there? [MrTri123] [ In reply to ]
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I am barely sub 33 10k on my bike 😉
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Re: Any sub 33 10k triathletes out there? [Schnellinger] [ In reply to ]
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The wife ran pretty close to 33 flat, off the bike, a few years ago. It was her 'best year' off of a long build up to running 170km in a week, about 6 weeks out.

That's not gonna help you at all, but I just thought I would blow your mind :)


***Edit, I just checked, it was closer to 34 than 33.

http://www.sweat7.com
Facebook Page: Sweat7
Twitter: @sweat7coaching
Last edited by: salmonsteve: May 22, 19 18:44
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Re: Any sub 33 10k triathletes out there? [Schnellinger] [ In reply to ]
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I did 32:50 for 10k after 6 years of triathlon training. My 5k PR at the time was 16:02, and my half marathon time was 1:14 (on a hilly course). I averaged 35 miles a week running. 1 run per week (Wednesdays) was speedwork (at the track) and my favorite "I'm ready" workout was 4x1 mile on 6:00 interval (so, for example, I would aim for mile splits of 5:10-5:12 and get 48-50 secs rest between each mile). I also did one day (Fridays) of some sort of hill repeats or hilly run.
I came from a swimming background, but I am pretty small and light so running came kind of naturally once I took it up. But it did take 6 years to get those times....I have always trained for triathlons and never had a "run only" focus.
Hope this is the kind of info you are asking for.....
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Re: Any sub 33 10k triathletes out there? [monty] [ In reply to ]
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I hoped someone like you would chime in. Didn't know the 2 times 5 k time + 1min to get your 10k time. Do you think that applies within a certain range only or is it generic? I would guess it gets easier the better you get... I can definitely see a 16 flat 5k translate into a 33 10k, whereas 19.30 for 5k doesn't necessarily translate into a 40min 10k.

Did you run your intervals with a group? I just joined the local running club and found that doing intervals with them is a lot easier than doing them on my own, even without music!

How much volume did you do on the bike? Did you think that you would have been able to run those times without any biking or is the mix of the two what got you there? I might be wrong, but I seem to recall from other posts that you used to be pretty good. And for some strange reason the intel I've gotten from people with experience from a high level always seem to be good (as soon as I understand the full content of what they are saying).

It is difficult to make predictions, especially about the future
Last edited by: Schnellinger: May 22, 19 23:18
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Re: Any sub 33 10k triathletes out there? [MrTri123] [ In reply to ]
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I am 31. No pure running background. Only ball sports until 2015, when I realised I wouldn't make it to the top level and quit. Had a year off before starting to move a bit again and then 6 months completely off before I started doing triathlon in 2017.

It is difficult to make predictions, especially about the future
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Re: Any sub 33 10k triathletes out there? [Schnellinger] [ In reply to ]
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Used to be...about 30 years ago. I ran on the university XC run team, but I think I pretty much got the times (32:30) because I also raced on the NCAA nordic team & at that time...my lungs were larger back then from all the ski training. The only thing I really recall from those days about the training, was that nordic ski training made triathlon training seem like "Beginner Session" no matter which of the 3 sports it was. I think the pain wiped out my memory of exactly what we did, but old training logs may tell the story. But it was painful.
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Re: Any sub 33 10k triathletes out there? [Schnellinger] [ In reply to ]
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While I don't do too much triathlon these days, and have been focusing mainly on running for the past few years, this might be relevant.

2015 - 35:02 after a bit of downtime
2016 - 33:08 after more run focus
2018 - 31:32 a month after a 2:27 marathon, ran a 15:10 5k although I'm sure I could have been quicker had there been more competition to work with
2019 - goal is a sub 31 on Monday, a month after a 2:23 marathon. This was off the P&D 18 week 85+ plan, averaging 100 miles a week during the build
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Re: Any sub 33 10k triathletes out there? [Schnellinger] [ In reply to ]
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I ran 32:40 in 2015 while training purely for triathlons.
There wasn't any real magic formula for it that I can remember. I started running when I was 27 and went through a long period in which I was getting injured frequently (stress fractures). 2015 I think was just a combination of being the right age and finally staying healthy long enough. I was running about 50-60km / week with a lot of it being at fairly high intensity. At the time I was training with a number of junior elite athletes who have since gone on to run on scholarship in University so I had a lot of people to chase after.
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Re: Any sub 33 10k triathletes out there? [Schnellinger] [ In reply to ]
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I was one at one time - from a long time ago.

But I came to triathlon from a high level running back-ground and had run 31 mins for 10K on the road when I came into triathlon.

I did not lose that much in my first few years in triathlon - as I recall standalone runs breaking 16 a few times for 5K, running a few 32 min 10Ks and 1:12 for a few 1/2 marathons.

What changed was that the "filler miles" when I was only running were replaced by swimming/cycling. I was still running 3 - 4 days/week, but it was almost all "quality" work of some kind- a track session or hard fartlek, a tempo run holding sub 6:00 min/mile pace for 30 - 40 mins, maybe a hill workout and perhaps one longer steady run!


Steve Fleck @stevefleck | Blog
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Re: Any sub 33 10k triathletes out there? [Schnellinger] [ In reply to ]
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Do you think that applies within a certain range only or is it generic? //

Well looking at our 70+ year old friend here on the forum, it looks to be pretty generic, regardless of age. Of course it is not a universal thing, but even the pro guys are pretty close.

And I almost never ran on a track, all our hard runs were mostly fartlek in big groups back then. It was great, no matter what run you went on, there was someone faster, or having a better day, or would go in the tank further. It was like going to 2 or 3 running Races every week, then doing an actual race on the weekend.


And the bike and swim definitely helped fill in fitness gaps. The bike especially, since it is using your legs, it was good for hill strength running. Volume was not that high, 200 to 250 miles a week, to go with about 30 running. I recall Simon Lessing commenting that he rarely ran over 30 miles a week, and it was very rare that anyone every outran him in a race..
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