I know a guy that uses a 12/27 dura ace cassette on his MTB, I could see no reason to use it on the road, especially for tri's. I dont get it. Why not use 12/23 and 53/39?

Gary, you obviously don't live in a hilly area. Go back to the post on FSA 50/34 and everything is covered quite well there.

BTW, I'm assuming that these Stronglights are compatible with Shimano BB's. Anyone know for sure?

uh, I guess Palomar is not hilly

Anyway ...

$14 bucks per ring, just slap on a 130mm Shimano compatible 38/50 Stronglight set up with a 12/25 cassette, when you go rollin up Everest

http://www.xxcycle.com/...=detail&REF=1905

1/3 the cost.... if you compare a alloy fork to a carbon fork you will most likey have the same result. They are a compact crank, but the similarity ends there.

I bought my FSA cranks, they are great, from Schwabb in Colorado over the phone for $299. It is a great feeling going uphill knowing that you have two or three more gears to go into when the going gets tough. Definitely helps keep the legs fresher for the long haul.

Brian

"1/3 the cost.... They are a compact crank, but the similarity ends there."

The difference that I see is 630 grams vs 532 grams for an extra $200. Or about $2.00 per gram weight saved. I don't believe that any rider could really "feel" the difference when riding between carbon and alloy cranksets. Frames yes, forks maybe and highly unlikely with seat posts. In reality, functionally both crank sets should do exactly the same thing. Sort of like comparing Renn and Zipp discs.

I thought the same way until I raced Wildflower. If I have to run (especially a 1/2 marathon or longer) after a hard and hilly ride I want a nice easy gearing on the hills. I'd definitely use a 12/27 for Wildflower, World's Toughest Half, Donner Lake...

certainly that stronglight is a nice crank. however, you can simply use any 110 BCD mt bike crank and leave off the granny. use an appropriately shorter cheap un-72 bb and there you are, a fashoinable and cutting edge 34X50 just like tyler! i reckon a fellow could find a swank blue anodized cook bros on ebay or something to match yer p2k, even. oddly, you could have done this at anytime in recent history and if we go back into the 80's and before there were untold numbers of great cold forged cranks that did the same thing. anyway just think, had you done that you could now be saying how tyler finally came 'round to your way-o-thinkin !!

a wise decision, to try it out. riding with no overlap is going to surprise more than few people, i believe - could be there is a reason it has not caught on over the last 75 years or so . . . . . . . .

I took a look at those chainrings since I was about to get some new ones anyway, what is the meaning of the 1 degree and 2 degree desgination on the rings?

[reply]a wise decision, to try it out. riding with no overlap is going to surprise more than few people, i believe - could be there is a reason it has not caught on over the last 75 years or so . . . . . . . .[/reply]

Yes, there is a reason why it is only catching on now. 10 years ago there was no 11t cog, 20 years ago there was no 12t cog. When everybody had a 13t as the smallest cog, there was a need for a 53 chainring. But the smallest cogs have decreased in size much qucker than our average speed has increased, hence there is an opportunity to change the chainrings now. And as for it catching on, compact cranks already have a very strong market presence in Europe, which is also why you find companies like Stronglight and FSA (which has a very strong position in Europe) at the forefront of the US introduction of compact.

As the the smaller overlap, it is something to get used to but I find I got used to that much quicker than to walking through Durham Forrest at the Paris-Roubaix challenge because my smallest gear was 39x27 and I really needed 34x27 to get through that slush in December.

---

Gerard Vroomen
3T.bike
OPEN cycle

okeedokee gerard, but i know there were 12's back in the day and 11's were not hard to find. guys at the k-town velodrome had them i know for a fact and how elite is kenosha, for goodness sake?. they were widely available on mainstream bikes thru suntour in the heyday of mt biking innovation, etc. and of course the euro's have this - this is what i am saying - "compact" is a trendy marketing term for a bolt circle which has ALWAYS been around, or at least for a concept which has. we have run a 34x50 or thereabouts on our off road tandem for many a year, and my touring bike had similar way back into the 70's ( tho half step was better...) you could get a TA in any of those sizes for all time.

anyway, dudes can ride and decide for themselves. i think the pattern is a spaecialty item fit for only select applications, myself.

moreover i think the VERY good idea of a smaller big ring is getting lost in the not so hot idea of a zero overlap pattern.

certainly the trend-o-meter is hot, as everybody thinks this is some new revelation unto the world i guess. that is the part i find amusing, the lack of perspective and thought that this is new - not to mention the marketing of a slick new term and a 300 dollar carbon crank to " access" it. whatever, carry on.

[reply]certainly the trend-o-meter is hot, as everybody thinks this is some new revelation unto the world i guess. that is the part i find amusing, the lack of perspective and thought that this is new - not to mention the marketing of a slick new term and a 300 dollar carbon crank to " access" it. whatever, carry on.[/reply]

Very true. As I said the other day, it's more useful than 10-speed. But that isn't saying much :-)

---

Gerard Vroomen
3T.bike
OPEN cycle

t-t-n,

Can you use a Mt bike triple crankset with just the two biggest rings used?

If so then the Race Face Next carbon cranks might look sweet. I believe they come in 110/74 and if they come with the 44-34-24 rings you just have to buy a 50 to go with the 34 already one it.

Are there 50/36 rings in the 130 pattern to work with everyones Ultegra and DA cranks?

Willy in Pacifica

---

.
Willy in Pacifica

"Why not use 12/23 and 53/39?"

in my view, having a good run, post-bike, is based on:

1. keeping cadence high during the ride (85-105), and
2. keeping power constant during the ride (no big power spikes).

there are no triathlons that go up palomar. but taking a milder hill as an example, such as nasty grade in wildflower, there is no way to spin 85 or 90rpm up that hill, at 280 - 320 watts, with a 39x23. not even with dual 650s. in fact, on a 700c bike you can't do it with 39x27. i know because i've tried it 3 years in a row, the last two with 39x27, and i can't do it.

so you either put smaller gears on the bike, or you decide that 65rpm is okay with you, or you decide that 500 watts is okay with you, and that assumes you can do it at all for that 2-mile grade. you can't (well, i can't) ride that hill on that course (nor beach hill, the first grade at WF) with 53x39 and 11x23, or even 12x27, if i want to ride it the way i'd like to ride it.

---

Dan Empfield
aka Slowman

yeah willy, you most definitely can use a spiffy "next" mt bike crank. your choice of colors, too! 110 BCD rings are available in 49, 50, 51, even 47. always have been. look at www.harriscyclery.com, just offn' the top of my head. i reckon a fellow could find a really nice cold forged 110 triple with a square taper bb for very cheap nearly anyplace. or, as you say a really cool boutique level one still for close to 1/2 what fsa wants for their "compact road" BS. tell you the truth i would go that way just BECAUSE FSA is being so cheesey about the whole thing. :)

q-factor need not be an issue, either. get a trim sized phil bb for your new raceface and you will have it all over that FSA, bro and still be under price. or, if the unused granny bosses bother you maybe a 2x9 cold forged ritchey, or ...... or...... no end of choices to go this way without that FSA.

Dan,

I am thinking more of using these gears on my everyday bike. I have a 53-39 and a 11-32 in the rear of my commuter since it did not come with a triple ring up front. I find the 53 to be too big on many occasions except going downhill.

If I had the 50 I am sure I would use it more often plus I could get rid of the 11-32 and go with a 12-27 or 12-25 in the rear de to the 34. I think I would rather have a 36.

Wasn't the original thread on the 50-34 about putting the 50-34 on bikes as a new standard and not just on racing bikes/tri bikes.

I think if I were to build up a new commuter or road bike (training bike) I would go with the 50-34 rather than a triple or big cluster in the rear.

I should mention that I live in the SF Bay Area and a 53-39 with only a 25 in the rear will barely make it up some of these hills and many newbies could no go up many hills comfortably.

Willy in Pacifica

---

.
Willy in Pacifica

I'm with Dan on this entire 50 tooth concept and certainly like the concept of 34 tooth small ring even if there is zero overlap. For years I have wondered why road bike manufacturers spec the same gearing on bikes targeted toward us, that they put on Lance's or Hincapie's bike. Seriously, what on earth do I need a 53x11 gear for on a 700 bike, especially in a triathlon. I would argue that there is no one in this forum or in the world of triathlon who can average 50 kph on a 40 K Olympic distance course. Folks, you can do this in a 50x13 gear with 700 wheels without spinning out (assuming around 100 RPM through the ride) ! The way I look at it, if I am going over 60 kph on a downhill, it is a great opportunity to coast, get into a tuck (and likely speed up to 70 kph with zero watt output) or have a drink. No need for a Hincapie like gearing for most of us :-)

So 5 years ago, I put a 50 tooth chain ring on my Kestrel 200 SC, so that I could stay in the big ring longer and have a straighter chain line. In a race like Tupper Lake Half Ironman, I use the big ring only on rolling course (and yes, I likely have to foolishly put out 500W from time to time and pay later), and split 2:23 for 90K (still ran 1:24 though). By the way, I race with a rear 12x23 8 speed as I have not yet upgraded to 9 speed and train with a 13x27 as I find this with 50x39 to be great gearing for day in and day out training especially in the hills. Yes, I have 8 speed and I still use downtube shifters (they are lighter and they never break). I'll go to 9 speed and bar end when I eventually break down and by a Cervelo P2K and hopefully by then, Gerard is spec'ing standard 50/36 or so.

In the mean time, the 50 works great with a 39 and I'd like to know if I can get an Ultegra compatible small chainring in the 36 tooth range anywhere without forking out big coin. Then I can just use a 12x23 all the time and have less drastic jumps between gears (perhaps go with a 12x21 in racing).

You can get the 50t, but 38t is the smallest ring you can get for 130mm BCD.

Im trying to figure out all the benefits of compact crank gearing. I live in a fairly flat area and run a standard 53-39 with a 12-21 cassette (I like the close spacing) In New Orleans we have no hills, but next year Im racing Powerman Alabama, Wildflower and IM Wisconsin. I was thinking I would nead at least a 12-23 for those races maybe even a 25. Would a 50X34 crank be good for those courses? What cassette would then be best - a 12-23?

Thanks,


Mark Roberts

if you have no hills you don't need a tiny gear, but then you don't need a huge gear either. you could probably make due with a 52/42 and an 11-21. but when you add hills,, things change, and they change more if you're a triathlete than if you're a road racer.

it doesn't matter to me how you get smaller chain rings, just that smaller chain rings are probably a better bet if racing on hills is in our future. FSA makes a 50/34, as do other companies. FSA's 50/34 also does not only come in its carbon variety. i know they make an aluminum one that's quite a bit cheaper, but i don't know if it's an aftermarket model or only OEM.

---

Dan Empfield
aka Slowman

"FSA's 50/34 also does not only come in its carbon variety. i know they make an aluminum one"

Are you sure Dan? I was just on their website and all that is listed is the carbon version. I've already ordered the Stronglights, but unfortunately had to get their BB as well since it's not compatible with my dura-ace BB. Still a decent value IMO. Unfortunately I probably won't be able to road test it until next spring. Winter is on it's way up here in the Great White North.

"Are you sure Dan? I was just on their website and all that is listed is the carbon version."

i saw it there at Ibike, but as i indicated it might be an OEM version only, or an OEM crank that's not yet available for aftermarket. don't know.

---

Dan Empfield
aka Slowman

Cerveloguy, my canuck friend...from when was the imminent arrival of winter a reason to stop riding ? I hope to hear a road test report of your 50/34 set up shortly. Granted, we should be cracking out the XC ski soon, but no reason why you can't crank off a 50K XC ski in the morning followed by a 50K ride in the afternoon once the snow plows come out :-). Seriously though, you likely still have 1 month of "rideable weather" down there in tropical Toronto. Up hear in Ottawa perhaps we'll have to build our igloos soon and set up out bikes with PC's, on our CT's with Wildflower course any day now :-). Good luck with the 50/34 set up !

Ritchey has a set of "Compact Road" cranks. 110 BCD, Octalink ('03 D-Ace, Ult, 105) BB compatible, 34/50, 588 grams. Super Stiff (see bikesportmichigan.com's test) They are new for '04 and a hit in Europe, I think the jury is out on whether to market them in the USA. For those that remember, Ritchey's original Logic road cranks were 103 mm square tape BB and 38/52 or 53 outer ring on a 110 BCD. This was way before Shimano and Campagnolo went to the ultra narrow 102/3 mm BB width and 10 years plus ahead of FSA's 110 BCD cranks. That Tom Ritchey guy has had some good ideas go unnoticed/recognized.

-SD

---

https://www.kickstarter.com/...bike-for-the-new-era

"from when was the imminent arrival of winter a reason to stop riding ?"

Actually I try to ride as much as possible all winter but on my old beater Schwinn Crosstrainer hybrid. Some years, as you know in eastern Ontario, there's just too much snow, so it's mostly x-country skiing that we do in the winter.

I did ride the bike on the trainer for the first time just yesterday. It really sucked, but I'd better get used to it as it won't be back on the road until next spring.