Randy I did not realize what an accomplished runner you are and it is too bad you never discovered this sport when you were a sub 2:50 runner but I still see the sub 2:50 mentality in everything you do. The body may be different as each age group passes but our minds keep rolling along wanting to push the limits with what we have available today.

By the way can I get you on the daily 100 pushups, 200 sit ups and 30 pull up program? It does not require 'good knees' !!!

Here is inspiration: In 1982 I was on target to run sub 2:30 at Grandmas Marathon but was slowing towards the end. I heard a big roar coming from behind me as we ran the last couple of miles. It was Lorraine Mohler. She passed me with a half mile to go and set a women’s course record of 2:29 that stood for twenty years….but right behind me in the finish was Dr Alex Ratelle with a 2:30:30. Alex was 56 years old at the time. Alex started running at the age of 45 when he gave up racing cars and went on to set all sorts of age group records and went head to head with another running age group legend of the time, Norm Green. Both of them were sub 2:30 marathoners well into their 50s.

I remember Dr. Alex. I was in my early 20s then. Not much to add. He was an inspiration, for sure

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I saw this on a white board in a window box at my daughters middle school...
List of what life owes you:
1. __________
2. __________
3. __________

I mentioned this in another Thread (which has received zero responses so far), a very interesting video.
You need to get past the first 60 seconds -
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EVdwRIvllmU

What is the summary of that video?

I didn't watch the whole video but learned 2 things: 1) atrial flutter and afib are different; atrial flutter is much easier to treat and 2) afib is a natural part of aging and is widely found in the annual kingdom in animals that live the longest like tortoises and elephants.

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Andrew Inkpen

Well, here is your first response. It was tortuous to sit and listen to! Good thing I was working on paperwork. I am VERY interested in the subject, but thought this was minimally helpful at best, and not very time efficient. Sorry my review is a bit of a pan. You previously didn't get responses because this was very hard to make it through. Note, I did think the Doctor was pretty interesting and it would be nice to have a more tailored discussion with him.

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David
* Ironman for Life! (Blog) * IM Everyday Hero Video * Daggett Shuler Law *
Disclaimer: I have personal and professional relationships with many athletes, vendors, and organizations in the triathlon world.

That's OK - it's not like I made the video! It was brought to my attention over at the Time Trial Forum, and I was frankly surprised that no one had even mentioned it here at ST. I'm 76 years old and still ride hard, so I'm also very interested in heart related issues.

Surprisingly, I do not feel like I am an old guy! This is a good a thread, and it gives me some confirmation to what I am experiencing in my training.

I got back into to Triathlons in 2021 at age 56 after a 11 year's off. I did my first Triathlon in 1986 at age 20. My goals these days are to be fit, and have fun being back into the sport. I love local events with Olympic distance being my favorite.

My biggest challenge is a combination of age one, and the fact that I took 11 years off. What I find challenging is trying to figure out this new operating manual. Every workout I begins with thinking about recovery, and realizing I need a whole lot more runway in my training. I also find adding miles to both running and cycling have to be done gradually to avoid feeling completely wiped out, and wanting to take a nap afterwards.

All in all, its all good! Its great to be back!

- George

I turned 50 last month. The big change as many have mentioned is recovery. I feel like it takes three full days to recovery from biking workout.

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_________________________________
The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design.

I just turned 50 last month, but in my late 40s, I didn't notice that the body takes longer to heal from owies and the discoloration from scaring doesn't really go away anymore. I can't push big blocks over and over like I used to (I need more recovery time) or else I just tank. My high-end and endurance is as good as it has been, but pushing my FTP, and maintaining it seems harder. I have also cut intervals down to 2 a week in 3-week blocks, with more Z2, I don't do more than 16 min of HIIT work in a workout (total), and generally keep sweet spot to about 40 min a workout (total). My body seems to respond better, and less overall fatigue.

I race CX in the fall to winter, and focusing on this, kept me feeling great for every race for the first time in years, and after CX season, I got on my TT bike after 3 months, and it was like I never left.

We are all doing what we can with what we have, including injuries, families, jobs, and whatever other stuff life throws in the mix. Glad you're still getting after it and enjoying it! That's my main goal at age 45, even as I'm still chasing some PRs. PRs are a ton of work, and I have to sometimes remind myself that this is supposed to be fun. Trying to keep that front and center.

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"One does not discover new lands without consenting to lose sight of the shore for a very long time."

I turn 45 this year.

I had my fastest days when I was 16 years old. I PR'd in the 5K at 16:44.

I then blew out my knee and had reconstructive knee surgery. I never made it under 17:00 flat in a 5k after that. I did some 17:30 type times my senior year of cross country but after running at state my Sophomore and Junior year didn't make it back to State for my Senior year which was disappointing. I slowed down in college due to poor training but did a race or two every year in the 18:30-19:00 range.

After college I had more time so I made a goal to get my 5K back under 18:00. I trained year-round for years. I was training harder than I had in high school but the best time I saw in my 20's was an 18:01.

When I was about 30's I figured I was slowing down and may never see another sub 18:00 5K so I started to try other things. I did Marathons for two years which never went well and so I focused on Half Marathons for 6 years and they went really well.

I moved to a town that didn't have a running club, that was right on a lake with multiple companies that hosted triathlons, so I decided to do one when I was 37. I took an 8-month break from running to train for it. After 8-months of Triathlon training I started to break 18:00 in the 5K. So, I stuck with triathlon training. First ran a 17:54, then a 17:52, then a 7:48, then a 17:42 over a 5-year span.

I have seen similar trends on the bike. First, I was trying to break 20 MPH average on the bike leg in races, then 21 MPH, then 22, then 23, and last year I broke 24 MPH for my bike leg average in a sprint.

So....being a running I was told that you peak at about 26 years old, and I was told that you start to lose muscle mass between 30-32 years old. So, I thought that after 26 I would be able to maintain fitness until about 30 years old and that after that I would start to see steady declines. That is NOT what I have seen.

When I started to get interested in Triathlons I was 36 years old and one of the guys that got me into the sport was 42 years old. He qualified for Kona about 6 months after I started to pick his brains about triathlons. He said that he was faster at age 42 than he was in his 20's. I didn't believe that was possible, but I am now 44 years old and am faster than I was in my 20's. I was possible training harder at age 26-29 than I am now too. I will say that I am training differently now. The multisport training has made a big difference. There is a lot of untapped potential in all of us. I found some of that by abandoning run training and switching to Tri training. There also is a lot that comes with experience. It took me a few years to learn to pace long course races. I can do that now though and it makes a huge difference. When I was doing Marathons from age 29-31 I bonked in every race and my PR was a 3:14. I did my first Marathon in 12 years in 2022 and I didn't bonk and went sub 3 hours.

So...40's you still are in your prime. 50's I am told that you start to feel the slow and that 60's you feel the slow x 2. I may get to 50 and surprise myself though. My current running group has three guys in their 50's that all have done 25+ marathons string back to their 20's and all three of them set lifetime PR's in 2022. I personally broke my Lifetime PR in the 10K at age 41 and my life-time 15K record at age 42. My Lifetime Marathon record at age 43, and my lifetime half marathon record at age 44. I guess I now need to work on breaking my 70.3 records and 5K records for age 45. I know I can break the 70.3 record. my 5K records might have to wait for age 46.

During a pre op physical it was discovered that I was in Atrial Flutter. The upper chambers of my heart were at 300 beats a minute while the lower chambers were at 34. I had no idea, but once I looked back at my resting heart rate from my garmin Fenix I realized it had been slowly dropping over the year from 44/ minute down to sometimes 32. At the same time my heart rate while training would not break 130. I thought I was just getting back in shape.

The doctors at Mayo did a cardioversion which corrected my HR and my resting went back to 45 and my training went to 150 to 160. I am now scheduled for an ablation in June because the doctor said if I correct it now it will prevent my from further advancing to A-fib which happens to 1 out of 3 atrial flutter patients. He said if you go into A-fib it is much harder to deal with and correct.

I got into the sport at 41. I'm 60 now, 3-4 Olys each year, half a dozen halfs, three IMs. I thought the same as you. But a few things happened. 1) I retired a few years ago. 2) I started learning more about diet.

#1 allowed me to train and care for myself as i always wanted to. Body maintenance at this stage of my life is time consuming, but for me well worth it.

I have the time to research diet and it's part in a healthy life. Prior to retiring i taught Geography, which has a unit called "Food From the Land." I loved that course and specifically that unit. I learned so much, the most enlightening was the impact animal agriculture has on the planet. Spoiler, it's very very bad. I made the decision to become a vegetarian for that reason. Since then i have continued researching. I learned i was a blissfully naive person, victim to the well polished marketing of the food industry and misleading government guidelines (probably because they heavily subsidize the meat, dairy, and egg industries). I learned meat products, including dairy and eggs, are not healthy. In fact they are quite the opposite, if not causing outright, certainly worsening the chance of cardiovascular disease, diabetes, stroke, cancer, skin issues, and on and on. There is no nutrient that is found in these foods that isn't easily found in plant alternatives. Two things that are always found in meat products are saturated fat and cholesterol. Their harmful effects have been known for many years. The animal agriculture sector goes to great lengths to distract and confuse the subject through sketchy studies, lobbying government, and unrelenting marketing.

So..... what is the point? Well, if animal products aren't healthy, how can they be part of a plan for best athletic success? That's how is see it. So i became vegan, for this and other reasons i won't detail here.

Bear with me, i'm almost there.

This past season i got covid, the version that hung on in my lungs for months. The first race i felt barely able to attempt was mid-July. It was predictably slow. The next and last race was mid-August. I was able to train hard and came within minutes of my fastest time ..in 2009. Keep in mind this was on a very much reduced training lead-up. It has been noted before, and i found it to be true for me as well: recovery time from workouts was noticeably shortened on a plant-based diet. I consider this a significant reason for my near pb performance. I can't wait for next season. I think i have a real shot at that pb. I haven't declined. It's inevitable, just not yet.

There is nothing to lose in trying a well balanced plant-based diet. Delicious, nutritious recipes abound.

50 this year.

In the last few weeks I ran a 5km PB, and Zwift spat out an all time high FTP.

Let's not talk about swimming.

This seems about right. I won my 1'st o/a at 40 and my last at 46. Crashed early at 47, lost 48, 49 to Covid, lack of desire and a lot of "life" at 50 with decent results. Early 51 knee surgery planned. We will see what late 51 does but I highly doubt the early 40 run speed will ever come back. 45/46 was an increase in swim, steady bike and already a declining run. (FWIW - swim always sucked so the increase was not impressive given where I was coming from)

I think a lot of you guys thinking you are doing PB's in the late 40's or 50's are only doing this because you never trained properly at 18-30 year old range. Some pro triathletes hang on at Ironman in their late 40's but they are doing that our of smarts, not physiology. It is just the way it is.

I too am doing personal bests as late at 55....but that was in master swim racing that I never did until 53 (400IM, 200 fly, 200IM). My running PB"s are all from the 19-30 year old range, not in my 50's. I wish I learned how to swim properly at 20 because a big engine helps way more in that sport in terms of applying good technique in an oxygen limited environment....but I have what I have in my 50's. It is motivating to do solid times for me in my 50's, but I am certain that if I swam competitively at 20, it would be a different world altogether, because all you have to do is look at the decline in times in all age groups in swimming in every event every 5 years and it is just statistically across humanity a gradual decline.

We can all fool ourselves that we are getting better late in life, but it is generally because we never trained properly in our physiological prime. If not Olympians would be 50 year olds and they never are.

I completely agree with the general sentiment. That said, I segment my history. Ie, I only look back so far. I'm never going to beat my 19, 29, 39 year-old self.

I haven't given up on eeking out a win over my 49 year old self at the wire. Even if I have to cheat and trip him. I already gave my 51 yo self Heart-Surgery...I'm not above anything.

"We can all fool ourselves that we are getting better late in life, but it is generally because we never trained properly in our physiological prime. If not Olympians would be 50 year olds and they never are."


Training better and smarter is fooling yourself?

Dev, I agree with you 100%. I am 57. I have had PBs in my 50s because I didn't start in triathlon until I was 48 ... shoot I literally didn't learn how to swim until I was 47! So I did not train at all when I was 20-30 yrs old. If I did train properly 20-30 yrs and had results to compare with, there is no way my 57 yr old self could keep up with my 20-30 yr old self. One thing that I love about endurance sports is the age group concept. I'm not going to race against a well trained 30 yr old and beat them but I may be able to hang with some in my own age group.

Two years ago I finished 12th out of 120 in my AG at Augusta. The guy who won my age group was a college track athlete. He trained well as a 20 yr old and is blessed with amazing physiology. Could I ever beat him? No because I don't have a 7:00 pace half marathon in me. But my bike NP watts were better than the HIM I did in 2020. So I improved against myself. And I continue to try to improve my technique, my diet, my recover so I can continue to develop myself. It all makes getting older more interesting because I am blessed to still be discovering this great sport.

i agree with the Paul D sentiment - at 55 there is no way I am faster than my younger self in cycling or running (i don't swim - that's crazy talk).
there are data gaps - i don't have competitive running times until i stopped cycling in my 30s. my current running times are way below my running times in my 30s.
i didn't have power data for my cycling 20s (the 90s - yikes). i do have it from age 40 through present. my cycling power has decreased at all durations. maybe by weightlifting i held on to 1-4 minute power the longest. maybe i didn't do hard enough 1-4 minute efforts in my early 40s?
I guess I'm saying we probably all have some data gaps for our best efforts at an age.
there is no way my best effort at 55 is going to beat that effort at 40 in my case.
but (perhaps as others have alluded to) - at 55 my goal is to match (maybe better) my best effort at 53-54 - i think this is possible. i think the decline is slight enough year to year that a really good year can be better than a few years earlier.

Maybe I am taking it too easy?

I’m 10 years older and could repeat the same workout the next day and often do

I have to say, recovery is the big change I’ve noticed - a super hard bike and I’m taking 3 days to recover, whereas 20 years ago I could have repeated it 3 days on the trot. My FTP hasn’t really dropped though.

We all know this!

But it's still a legit accomplishment top beat your significantly younger self if you were doing some real training, even if it's not as refined and as much as you do in your older years.

I also think the decline varies quite a lot in people, and isnt just a linear dropoff. For example, I'm almost certain that even if I ran more in high school, I'd barely better than the mediocre 19-20ish 5k runner I was back then, even though I was doing lower mileage. I know for sure I wouldnt be runinng sub18s - I tried that at ages 30-34 where there's not much age loss, and it was impossible even with megamiles for me. But my dropoff in performance has been really small so far, at least compared to most of my peers in my 45-50 AG. It seems that I've just improved a little bit while they've gotten a lot worse

(Obviously more realistically, we're all losing ability and I'm both lucky and training harder than the MOPers than I'm beating. But I'l take it!)