Personally, I prefer the current rule, but that's jsut me.

They should NOT be eligible for AG awards at any time, but should be eligible for overall awards That's pretty much how every triathlon around here does it. But the important issue is that "expert" triathletes should be eligible for ranking points no matter what wave they race in. It's stupid that they don't get points if they race in that wave.

I gather the point is that if you are entered in the expert wave, you are no longer part of the age group race. The authors consider the opportunity to go off in the first wave to be an advantage that unbalances the competition, and thus biases your race results (and subsequent ranking).

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"Go yell at an M&M"

I saw one race last year, where they actually required the winner to be in the Elite wave. (If my memory serves me correctly, the fastest time actualyl didn't win the race then.)

I agree. An athlete starting in the Elite/Expert wave cettainly has a big advantage over another athlete in the same age-group who starts several waves back. The first athlete gets to swim and, therefore, draft off faster swimmers than the age-grouper. He gets to ride and run among faster competitors, which, for most people, usually results in faster times. He also gets the advantage of racing on a clearer course. Not having to pick his way thru/around/over a horde of people from earlier waves certainly makes things a bit easier/faster. Not to mention a better(and fresher) selection of the post-race spread and a shorter time waiting for a massage! Granted, he has a longer wait between finishing and the award ceremony....

Frank

That makes perfect sense to me. Its a tactical issue at the pointy end and its difficult to be tactical if someone in a later wave is a smokin fast sandbagger (although they are forced there if they want AG points).

I also think later waves actually have a small advantage in that strong cyclists can almost create a continual draft situation as they navigate their way through the field. I know that as a slow swimmer I take advantage of this and I'm usually in one of the first few waves.

I know I brought this up last year but I still think they should just organize the first wave by expected finish time and that first wave should just be a normal size wave (so if you have 5 waves the top 20% expected finish times go in there or if you have 10 waves the top 10% go in the first wave, etc.). I'm not a RD but I don't see why this would be difficult to do. All AG'rs still race their AG and points are still accumulated. For AGs where the top 3 or 5 'expected finish times' straddle the first wave cutoff time just force everyone in that AG back to the wave containing that AG.

Safer for everyone and more fun for faster people. A smidge more work for the RDs who I know already have enough to do but I think this would be worth it.

ot

The AGC is also considering other expert division 'criteria' or more general criteria (below):

for example, open the expert wave to ALL interested athletes provided they check a box on the entry form that would have language like this:
"The expert division is intended for highly experienced triathletes who have previously finished triathlons of similiar length in the top 5% overall (by respective gender) and expect to do so again in this triathlon. Expert wave triathletes are not eligible for age-group prizes/awards or age-group rankings, but are eligible for overall
prizes/awards."
"I have read and understand this and meet these criteria, signed
______________"

or more generous criteria like this:

top 20 overall (by respective gender) in triathlons of 1 to 399 participants,
or top 30 overall (by gender) in triathlons of 400 to 799 participants,
or top 50 overall (by gender) in triathlons of 800 or more participants,
or (age group results)
top 7 of their respective age group in triathlons of 1 to 399 participants,
or top 10 of their age group in triathlons of 400-799 participants,
or top 15 of their age group in triathlons of 800 or more participants



TEXT OF THE PROPOSAL:

The USAT recommends that all sanctioned triathlons of distance
half-ironman and below have an "expert" division available for
athletes.

The USAT recommends that triathletes in the expert category (at the
discretion of the race director) EITHER:
(1) be placed in their own swim wave, and that this swim wave be the
first swim wave of the day,
OR
(2) have the expert category triathletes simply be allowed to start
ALONG WITH the first swim wave of the day, whichever category or age
group that may be.

This choice would be decided by the race director, as he/she considers
factors such as the number of expert triathletes racing, the total
size of the race, and total number of swim waves.

Race Directors may at their discretion open the expert division to all
interested athletes. Otherwise, the USAT requires that entrants in the
expert wave be USAT annual members in good standing AND recommends
that entrants have previously placed in a USAT sanctioned triathlon in
the:


(********possible criteria**********)
(overall results)
top 10 overall (by respective gender) in triathlons of 1 to 399 participants,
or
top 15 overall (by gender) in triathlons of 400 to 799 participants,
or
top 25 overall (by gender) in triathlons of 800 or more participants,
or
(age group results)
top 3 of their respective age group in triathlons of 1 to 399 participants,
or
top 5 of their age group in triathlons of 400-799 participants,
or
top 7 of their age group in triathlons of 800 or more participants.

Athletes will self-determine if they meet this recommended entry
criteria by the honor system. Race directors will not have to confirm
expert category entrants' previous race results.

Expert division triathletes initially will not be eligible for
age-group awards. However, the USAT recommends that expert triathletes
BE eligible for OVERALL finish awards, including prize money if it is
offered.

Expert division triathletes' finish results initially will not be
eligible for age-group USAT national rankings for the triathlons in
which they entered in the expert category.

THE END

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Where would you want to swim ?

bump for more comments...

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Where would you want to swim ?

as a relatively slow age grouper it makes sense to me to have the fastest of each age group all go off at the start.

i'm tired of getting passed by the lead swimmers in the wave(or 2) behind me. :-)

there's no real way for me to get out of their way, and there's no way for them to avoid hitting me.

in the Disney marathon, you have to prove you can run a certain pace to be in the corrals towards the front, it just makes sense.

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"the trouble with normal is - it always gets worse"

- Cockburn

Why not just have swim seed times and go off of that? I know people will lie. i know people won't be accurate, but it is a different direction.

If you seed by swim times, there will be a lot more "clumping" starting the bike increasing the probability of drafting and accidents.

looks good to me. The races around here that have elite waves do it much this way.

Personally I'd race elite if I was going for a PR and wanted a clear road and an honest race. Last year at Boulder the 40-44 men went 3rd wave, and it was a real pleasure to ride an uncluttered bike course. I'd race AG most of the time, but it is nice to have the option.