Dropping down in front will move you forward.

The two simplest solutions are longer armcups that give you the ability to hike your elbows up or something like the wingspan extenders. This assumes you have enough room to add length to your extensions as well though otherwise you'll end up overreaching.

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Wouldn't dropping the front end effectively lenegthen my torso and "shorten" the reach? I was alraedy planning to drop the front some, so I'll try this either way.

I hadn't seen the TriRig extenders, that should help. I have some room to move my hand forward on the extensions without being completely off the front so that could be an easy fix.

longer extensions?

where do you want the reach? Are the poles not long enough? do you feel you could move the cups further forward?

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Brian Stover USAT LII
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I’ll second the Tri Rig extenders, I’ve used those to move forward and they are an effective & clean way to make most cockpits more adjustable.

The Tri Rig spacing for mounting armrests can be a little weird, so you’ll want to confirm you can make that work.

If you buy long open-back Tri Rig armrests that will help you with getting farther forward and you won’t have to worry about spacing. You would probably need extensions at that point, so you’re spending a little money, but I find the long Tri Rig armrests a significant improvement in comfort & bike control compared to shorter armrests (even compared with PD Ergo+ which are long already).

I notice your upper arms are fairly vertical, I personally find better comfort (and probably aero) with my upper arms angled more forward (closer to Superman). That’s a personal aspect of fit so YMMV of course, but IF limited cockpit reach is preventing you from stretching out a little more then it’s probably worth investing in. If you wanted to experiment with more reach you could even check with the Tri Rig folks so see if 2 wingspan extenders would be structurally sound, even if it just lets you experiment more with fit.

The poles are uncut 51 speedshot Revs, so they're already 420mm long and most I've seen are only 400mm. Are there longer extensions out there? I'm sure that will be my next question once I get the cups pushed forward far enough.

I'm looking at moving the cups further forward to allow my upper arms to have a better angle and hopefully settle into possition a little better, this position defintiely feels more scrunched up that likely necessary. The cups are currently mounted as far forward as I can on the stock brackets (why Argon made the bike so short is beyond me). I think the wingspan extenders will at least let me get into a workable position.

Reducing tilt will give you more reach and like probably 80% of the people who reduce tilt, you'll probably end up faster/more aerodynamic

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If they use the 22.2mm connection you can just order aluminum tube and cut/bend to whatever you want.

Even with the previous gen they were short and high. I think they saw many of the buyers were non aggressive TT positions.

The 118, which was designed for a WT team hasmore reach, less stack. The 117, which is only 4 watts slower allow for a non proprietary cockpit, so that helps

But that doesn't really solve your problem.

Drag 2 zero poles are just over 420, and the grips can be moved and clamped on the end section, which will give you more length and height.

Why does reducing tilt for the 80% improve aerodynamics? What kind of effect is flattening out having? Thanks.

IDk the reasons why, I have some suspicions, yet time after time that I test, staying in that 0-5 degree range is overwhelming faster for the majority of people I test than going higher, especially as riders become more mortal (aka not averaging 25-30+ mph)

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Brian Stover USAT LII
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Reducing tilt is free, so that will certainly be part of my trial and error. As far as aero, I've been trying to force some time into my schedule to get some time with Ero, hopefully I can make it happen this summer (unless you're planning a trip to the PNW?). Until then I think I just need to find a good loop to get some real Chung testing done.

Just got back from a 2d trip to CA where I tested both in LA and SD.


have aero sensor, can travel. I've been contacted by someone in WA who wants to get tested. If I had 4-6 or so people in the PNW it would be worth the trip for me.

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Brian Stover USAT LII
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So why do all the pros (excluding Frodo) who I assume have tested in aero tunnels have higher hands than 0-5 degrees? Not being a smart ass, genuine question as to why they may test differently?

in the long term: change the bike frame

I don't understand the concept of this bike, where the stem length is almost zero, and you cannot change it after a proper bike fitting. I would rather prefer a lower model where you can install whatever system which would fit you better.

Stupid hot take: it won't affect reach per se, but you'll get slightly more room if you shorten the crank - that way you'll raise your seat and the seat will go back. Would probably need a serious cut to the crank, like 60 mm, to achieve a 20 mm horizontal gain. They don't look very long to me, so it probably won't fly.


I also agree with ivantriker's judgment, also a hot take but maybe not stupid: integrated stems are BS.

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"FTP is a bit 2015, don't you think?" - Gustav Iden

I will have new arm cups in 2 weeks. I am seeking test riders. You can consider being a beta tester with our special price and the bolt pattern is bigger than whats on the market and the cups are 220 mm in length. PM me if interested and I can send images. I get the samples next week.

Joshua

Strangely, my first thought when looking at your pic is that you're sitting pretty far forward, perhaps too far forward. Sliding back may be the solution. It's free to experiment.

Some of what I suspect is that you need to be going pretty fast to achieve benefits. I suspect that it works best at very high speeds with more separation between the elbow cups and base bars. The pro cyclists I've tested almost all tended to be more aero with higher hands, the pro triathletes less so and the AG athletes I test even less so. Some of it probably has to do with body shape, morphology ( I suspect longer arms might be better flatter, idk for certain, just a hunch)

Part of it is A LOT of people just copy what the best riders are doing, including pros, without testing. Formal testing is less prevalent in triathlon, even for pros than most think. My guess is if you took the top 10 M&F at Roth, IMCDA, top 10 FPRO at Elsinore 70.3 & top 10 MPRO at Nice 70.3 (60 pros if my math is correct) at most 30% of those do formal testing where they have results in hand and are not guessing at what is faster.

Even WT pro cycling teams are still struggling with testing. One team just fired a lot of their support staff including the person running their aero testing program. If a WT team is struggling this close to the TDF with their aero testing......... yikes. What hope does the average triathlete who isn't Jan or LCB have? (besides reaching out to me hahahaha?)

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Brian Stover USAT LII
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I can't argue that the frame isn't optimal but it was what was pushed to me by my team and Argon. So at least for today it is what it is. The integrated "stem" has its benefits but being able to push the front end would likely outweigh all of that.

I could go shorter cranks, but they're already 165 so even going to 155 isn't going to gain me too much and with a 35" inseam I would be apprehensive going much shorter. Sliding the saddle back would definitely help with reach and will another aspect to play with.

Josh, I'll raech out to you shortly.

DD, I'll reach out to you as well. I have a couple of people in Bend that would be interested and I could potentially wrangle a few others to fill a day

Those are a great solution. The only issue is bolt spacing may differ by bike and component brands my Factor and Wattshop bots have a 25mm spcacing

Hey erbrown - I have exactly the same issue - so I'm glad I'm not the only one. I'm trying to get more reach on the same bike. What'd you end up doing?

Here's the other options I've considered:

• Tetsuo Neo Kaizen custom cockpit - with all the accessories and the k-wedges, it should give a few more inches - but it's like 1300 euros - https://tetsuo.com/...t/apoyos-neo-kaizen/
• Extender bolts with the FastTT system - or another system - https://www.fasttt.bike/...rd-extender-bracket/ - probably around $1200 all in I'm thinking
• Revolver - I think this is what Joe Skipper uses - but it's 2000 pounds ($2500) - https://www.revolverwheels.co.uk/...omono-ergomonosplit/

I'd love more options. I'm wondering if the Vision arm rest could be moved forward.

Alex,

To some extent I'm still suffering through it, I adjusted my fit to move slightly back and slightly lower which has allowed me to settle into the position better but definitely not perfect. I have the TriRig extensions sitting on my shelf waiting for some new armcups to arrive to test it all out. It won't help with reach to the end of the extensions but it should help with getting support undermy arms and getting a little bit further out without huge expense.

The other "system" I found that I've been tempted to pull the trigger on (maybe a christmas present to myself) is the Sync system: https://www.syncergonomics.com/...ect-02-evo-ecosystem. It looks like it would be around $1200.

Good find on the FastTT, that seems like it could be a good inexpensive solution if it doesn't cause the tilt clamp to slip while going over bumps.