I would say you need more speed and tempo work. Base building is fine before you start to put in some strength(hill runs and hill repeats) then speed/tempo work. Also make sure you are "rested" before you hard speed/tempo workout to get it's full effect.

As for actual workouts, I tell you what works for me. One tempo run per week(start at 6 build to 10 miles) and one 'fartlek' session(start at 3 minutes on/3 off to 6 on/3 off), one long run then maintenance runs with what's left. Of course, the main key with any program is staying injury free. This assumes you have a lot of time for all your workouts, if you don't you could get buy with alternating tempo/fartlek weeks so you only have to run maybe 4-5 times a week rather than 5-6 times.

I'm sure other runner gurus will weigh in as well...another option with your overall speed is to get a triathlon coach to help with all of this.

IMHO, IM running is about running on tired legs. Was your long runs the day after long bike rides? I really think that trains your body to running with tired legs.

Peace,
RF

obv brag post.

---

----------
Fortitudine Vincimus

What was your food intake like during the race?
That you had a bad spell mid run then snapped out of it makes me think you were bonking. If that was the case that could save you 10-15 min right there.

dude if you are sub-10, and you really want to improve, why would you ask this gigantic bunch of posers known as slowtwitch? Get a goddamn real coach.

Just to clarify, a tempo run is run at approx your hour race pace, and so you aren't technically doing a tempo run if it is 20k or at your marathon pace.

If you do them too slow, which it sounds like you have been doing, they won't best help you to improve your lactate threshold. If you haven't done one recently, you should race a 10K and plug the results into Mcmillan's calculator to get your tempo pace. Generally, it will be about 10 secs/mile slower than your 10K race pace.

Some good tempo workouts are:
8x1 mile (1' rest)
4x2 mile (2' rest)
3x15' (2' rest)
2x20' (2' rest)
1x30'-40'

The shorter intervals you would do in the "tempo interval" pace, the longer ones more at the tempo pace. Comfortably hard is what you are shooting for, not all out. It helps to do them on a track so you can really nail down the pace, although it can get a bit boring.

Good luck.

I wonder... were you to leave your training essentially the same as last year (keeping the same relative intensities but training slightly faster as a result of increased fitness) do you think you'd have a better result?

Hi Josh,

Congrats on a fine performance in your first IM. Don't be too hard on yourself about the run - that is the leg where a lot of general fatigue and nutrition issues come home to roost in a long triathlon. From the sounds of things, lap 2 may have been the result of a nutritional low - the fact that you rallied back means that you figured things out and were able to keep your head in the game - way to go!

As far as race specific preparation, it sounds like you are on the right path. In fact, many seasoned athletes could learn a thing or two from you! I agree with the poster who suggested race pace runs the day after long rides - these are great "reality check" workouts and are wonderful opportunities to practice maintaining your form on tired legs. For even more specificity, you can practice ingesting fluids/calories at race levels on these workouts too.

In your general preparation period, interval training on the bike and run aimed at improving lactate threshold pace is useful and fun to do. The tempo running workouts suggested earlier in this thread are good examples. There is also nothing wrong with doing V02max workouts in the general prep period. 5x3min running or 5x4-5min cycling on equal rest at best average pace are good basic examples. Another poster correctly noted that being relatively rested for these yields the best results.

As you enter the last couple of months before your next IM, you can gravitate back to race specific training, and enjoy the faster race pace that you get to train at (although it still hurts just as much!).

One final note - don't drop your squad swimming and easy runs. They are the foundation for everything.

Have fun!

---

Are YOU in the Zone?
http://www.discomfortzone.com

Forget speed, tempo, fartlek, etc. Based on your description of the rece, your limiter was endurance and possibly nutritional mistakes. Your solution is a simple one: run more. Seriously.

That's a "threshold" run: A run a lactate threshold (LT) pace. While that is also a tempo run it is only one kind. Threshold is a subset of Tempo. All threshold runs are tempo runs, but not all tempo runs are threshold runs.

"Tempo" is a more nebulous term that really refers to a range of paces, roughly anywhere from marathon pace to LT pace.

Congrats on a fine race!
Not sure how much weekly mileage you were running, but that may be one area to focus on. All the guys I know running 3:20 IM's can comfortably run sub 3:00 open marathons so that may be one reference to shoot for. Myself (just ran 3:22 at IMOO), I run consistently ~35 miles/week for at least the 6 months prior to IM, with a peak 3 week period where I ran 45 mi/wk. As for intensity, I run steady to upper-steady effort on must runs. One run included some work around max 1-hour pace, and then during my long run I added some efforts around open half-marathon pace.

Good Luck!

"Threshold is a subset of Tempo. All threshold runs are tempo runs, but not all tempo runs are threshold runs. "

I'm using Jack Daniel's terminolgy. Since he is the one who popularized it, I'll give him the benefit of the doubt:

http://64.233.169.104/...amp;client=firefox-a

"So just for review, let’s see how the experts define the term. Also known as an anaerobic threshold (AT) run or lactate-threshold run, the tempo run was popularized by Jack Daniels, Ph.D., about a decade ago. Here’s his definition, taken from Daniels’ Running Formula (Human Kinetics): "A tempo run is nothing more than 20 minutes of steady running at threshold pace." (He goes on to say that 20 minutes is ideal, but may be varied to suit the needs of a particular course.) Without getting too technical, threshold pace is the effort level just below which the body’s ability to clear lactate, a by-product of carbohydrate metabolism, can no longer keep up with lactate production. Daniels states that this pace is, for most people, about 25 to 30 seconds per mile slower than current 5K race pace."

No offense but you are really not using Daniel's terminology. Neither is Beck. If you read Daniels' book, you'll see that he almost always speaks about threshold pace, not tempo pace. He does occasionally use the two words interchangeably but when he does strictly address the subject of "tempo" runs he clearly distinguishes them.

From Daniels Running Formula, Second Edition p. 113

"Many coaches and runners do longer tempo runs at slower than true threshold pace, and this can yield positive results... In any case, I believe in the benefits of tempo runs that are longer than 20 minutes and have designed two tables that alter the speed of the run as dictated by duration"

As much as I respect Daniels, he did not invent the tempo run. I've heard enough elites talk about their 8 and 10 mile tempo runs to realize that the word itself has many interpretations. "Lactate Threshold" has only one meaning, however and is a much better term to use to describe the specific pace Daniels talks about. I suppose that's why he uses it.

I agree with you that the run is where improvment is needed. It's defibatly out of balance with the swim/bike performance. All things considered, you should be able to drop the run below 3:20. It can get a bit complicated as IM run performance is not just as a result of having great run fitness. I have seen sub 2:20 marathon runners absolutly humbled by an IM marathon. Bike pacing, nutrition and general fatigue are also at play here. However, assuming all of these are optimized, I would suggest doing a block of run only training or perhaps with a bit of cycling and just really focus on getting out and running almost every day of the week and slowly starting to build up the run volume - do this for a few months in the off season and then see where you are at.

---

---

Steve Fleck @stevefleck | Blog

Congrats on a great performance.

In the IM, what were your split times for each quarter of the marathon ?
Knowing this would help understand if it is your overall running pace that needs upping, or if you are fading and if so at what point.

Thanks for all the great feedback everybody! and thanks for the clarification of what "tempo" means ... lol

What some are saying about nutrition makes a lot of sense. on the bike leg i had a fuel belt gel flask which holds 6 gels (never again) first serious bump and it fell out of the Velcro strap. i ate 3 power bars on the bike and ALOT of gatorade.

going into the run was feeling great but hungry and the whole marathon i ate everything i could at every aid station. so that probably had alot to do with the 2nd lap run. i also had a red bull and 2 "space food sticks" after lap 2. do you guys have space food sticks in the US?

I will swap my weekend around so i do my run Sunday and ride Saturday like some have suggested and add a speed /fartlek session alternating during the week.

i will try and find my splits for the marathon.

P.S. it is not a brag post, I REALLY badly want to go to Kona.