P2

P2.

b14

B16?

You can analyze them down to bare component level, but ultimately if you're talking about "bang for the buck" then you should be looking at which one fits/suits you best, and which one you find more aesthetically appealing. Yes, I suggested the most shallow concept of appearance - as though we're all above it. If you don't take some level of pride in what you're riding, then you may as well be riding some POS beater frame that you dig out of the landfill. Chances are it won't be THAT much slower and it will cost you MUCH MUCH less.

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"The right to party is a battle we have fought, but we'll surrender and go Amish... NOT!" -Wayne Campbell

I was fitted on each of them and their geometry is pretty similar. I'm probably going with a b14 because the componetry is slightly nice on the Felt and because I like the color scheme better than the Cervelo. Can't go wrong with either, long as they fit you.

Everybody and their mother rides a Cervelo. Be a rebel and get the Felt.

As a P2 owner, if I had to make the decision over again I would go with the Felt. Don't get me wrong, the P2 is a great bike, but the Felt beats it in a few key areas that I hadn't really considered before I bought.

1) Cable routing is much cleaner on the Felt with all cables entering on the top tube behind the stem (The P2 shifter cables enter on the down tube)
2) Rear brake placement. The Felt has a hidden rear brake, whereas the P2 does not.
3) Ability to upgrade to the bayonet fork. AFAIK you can put the bayonet for on any of the Felt B series tri bikes.

i was in your same position and chose the B14.

Went with the B16 instead of the P2, myself. Couldn't afford to step up to the B14 at the time. I'll eventually upgrade to the Devox base-bar set.

Main reasons I went with the Felt (not in order):
1.) More comfortable saddle, stock
2.) Price
3.) Componentry
4.) Cable-routing
5.) Overall appearance

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Editor-in-Chief, Slowtwitch.com | Twitter

Are you buying either bikes from the same retailer?

-SD

Just checked out the B14 today...LBS sells both Felt and Cervelo decisions decisions decisions

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All I Wanted Was A Pepsi, Just One Pepsi

Team Zoot, Team Zoot Mid-Atlantic

1) Looks nice, but how much more "go fast" does it give you?
2) Cervelo would argue that unless a rear brake is truly "hidden," (i.e. integrated a la SC, Plasma, P4...) it's not much better.
3) Then that puts it at a MUCH different price point and is no longer a comparable purchase.

At 2399, the 2011 P2 is VERY tough to beat on value.

Based purely off the fact that everything I've seen says the P2 is aerodynamically superior, that would be an easy decision for me. Components don't make you faster, so Dura Ace/105/cheap stuff I run--none of that really matters except in the bling category. Why do people not buy the fastest stuff all other things being equal?
Chad

Do you have any links?

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Austin, TX

Yeah, pictures or it didn't happen.

This is old news if you follow ST at all, but here you are. Don't bother arguing that the chart is from Cervelo. It's not, totally. It's actually an ST creation from multiple manufacturers data all cobbled together, but enough folks in the know, who have done their own testing seem to think its pretty accurate. Frankly, if you look at the frames in question, it's not that hard of a stretch to see how much sense it makes.
Trek and Cervy spend the most time in the tunnel.
Felt's old DA had some good points but the front end was not very aero (too wide). Their newer bike is supposed to be better, but the B-whatever is not the new bike (at least to my understanding).
Lucero didn't have very aero shapes in the tube, but was at least sort of narrow.
Kuota, Guru, Scott, Orbea--large head tubes, hideous tube shapes, not well-designed.

Chad

P.S. BTW, that took about 30 seconds to find with the search function, which is a very handy tool.


Let's try to quantify this... maybe Gerard will correct me if I'm way off (or anyone else in ST land):

Chart below is from Cervelo...
P3C = 690g of drag for a size 56 bike
Trek TTX = 690
P2C = 705g
Pinarelo = 705
Felt DA = 725
QR Lucero = 735
Kestrel Airfoil = 760
Kuota Kaliber = 780
Guru Crono = 790
Scott Plasma = 800
Orbea Oro = 810


difference in drag is in grams. 9 grams of drag = approximately 1 watt... so
15 grams of drag = 1.67 watts (difference between P2C and P3C. If you are familiar with a powermeter, 1.67
watts is basically nothing in the terms of eventual time savings. Zipp says
on their website that 1 watt = 2-3 seconds over a 40k course. So do the math
to compare the frames.

1 watt = 2-3 seconds over a 40k course (I will use 2.5 seconds for example below)

.....

So if the new P4C is '30 seconds fast over a 40k course" versus a P3C

30 seconds saved = 12 watts over 40k course. Gerard has said that to update the P3C- he wants to improve it by 20%.
SO is it really 20% better or??? Well 20% off the P3C = 138 grams = 15 watts... instead it's 12 watts better or 108 grams of drag better or 15.6% more
aero. Maybe Gerard rounds up to 20% ;)

New Chart (my estimate of P4C)
P4C = 582 grams of drag
P3C = 690g of drag for a size 56 bike
Trek TTX = 690
P2C = 705g
Pinarelo = 705
Felt DA = 725
QR Lucero = 735
Kestrel Airfoil = 760
Kuota Kaliber = 780
Guru Crono = 790
Scott Plasma = 800
Orbea Oro = 810

Bottom Line- how many riders will choose to spend 3k extra to save 34 seconds on a P4C vs P2C... the P2C- still ranks as the best bang for the buck. The P3C is just silly to spend the money on vs P2C. The P4C is quite a bit better- but would 3k in the wind tunnel get you a lot more faster... or a P2C and 1 $150 aero helmet... and a set of super aero wheels... (of course some will say- why can't i do it all!)

Yet based on the same charting, and analysis below it, you'd be talking about approximately 2 watts overall being the difference between the two.

As such, I went with the frame/aerobar combo that fit me the best. It happened to be the B16.

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Editor-in-Chief, Slowtwitch.com | Twitter

Well thanks alot for the help. What about the vision crank vs the fsa crank? Is there a big difference?

Taking the data presented by cdw at face value and the pre-determined budget of the OP, it would be wise to consider and compare the complete bicycles.

The 40mm aero shaped rim, integrated aerobars, aero chainrings + crankset, etc...

I agree 100% that some components don't matter. Air doesn't care if you ride a 105 front derailleur or Dura Ace. You can't make that same case with wheels, handlebars, and to a lesser degree, the crankset.

There isn't a faster "out of the box" bike in the industry at ~$3000 than the B14.

-SD

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https://www.kickstarter.com/...bike-for-the-new-era