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1x11 Ultegra RX or Force 1?
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I think I'll just pull the trigger on 1x11 for this season since my races are flat and 1x12 is a bit costly at the moment.

Is there consensus on whether Ultegra RX or Force 1 is better for 1x? My shop said the Force 1 has a stronger clutch mechanism. The fact that Ultegra RX only costs half the price of Force is suspect, too. Is one a clear winner over the other or do they both perform well?
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Re: 1x11 Ultegra RX or Force 1? [BigBoyND] [ In reply to ]
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I don't think it matters. I have raced the last couple years on 1x without a clutched rear derailleur and have no complaints. Maybe choose based on your prefered shifters.
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Re: 1x11 Ultegra RX or Force 1? [BigBoyND] [ In reply to ]
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I have Ultegra RX and an 11-36 out back and a 42t up front. I’m happy with it. No chain drops. With the correct chain length and a good front chainring I don’t foresee a dropped chain.
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Re: 1x11 Ultegra RX or Force 1? [BigBoyND] [ In reply to ]
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Before plunking down money on a 1x11 system, I'd wait 6 weeks and see if a Force 1x12 mechanical is launched at Sea Otter.

"They're made of latex, not nitroglycerin"
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Re: 1x11 Ultegra RX or Force 1? [BigBoyND] [ In reply to ]
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BigBoyND wrote:
Is there consensus on whether Ultegra RX or Force 1 is better for 1x?

Shimano. It will last longer than Sram.

No need for a clutch. If you have an 11spd derailleur already, use it. A NW chainring is a good idea. I bought a cheap Litepro off ebay (~$32) and it's fine.
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Re: 1x11 Ultegra RX or Force 1? [GreenPlease] [ In reply to ]
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GreenPlease wrote:
I have Ultegra RX and an 11-36 out back and a 42t up front. I’m happy with it. No chain drops. With the correct chain length and a good front chainring I don’t foresee a dropped chain.

Is that a 42 or a 52 up front?
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Re: 1x11 Ultegra RX or Force 1? [dangle][gary p][rruff] [ In reply to ]
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dangle wrote:
I don't think it matters. I have raced the last couple years on 1x without a clutched rear derailleur and have no complaints. Maybe choose based on your prefered shifters.


Interesting. And you didn't experience any chain drops in that period?

gary p wrote:
Before plunking down money on a 1x11 system, I'd wait 6 weeks and see if a Force 1x12 mechanical is launched at Sea Otter.


Good point. I can wait that long. If it turns out that Force isn't XDR-only, then it might be a better option

rruff wrote:
Shimano. It will last longer than Sram.

No need for a clutch. If you have an 11spd derailleur already, use it. A NW chainring is a good idea. I bought a cheap Litepro off ebay (~$32) and it's fine.


I currently use a mechanical Shimano 9100. A NW chainring is all I need? My plan is to get the 3T Torno. 3T suggested they will have AXS compatibility soon, in case I change to AXS later down the line.
Last edited by: BigBoyND: Mar 1, 19 4:15
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Re: 1x11 Ultegra RX or Force 1? [BigBoyND] [ In reply to ]
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BigBoyND wrote:
[
I currently use a mechanical Shimano 9100. A NW chainring is all I need? My plan is to get the 3T Torno. 3T suggested they will have AXS compatibility soon, in case I change to AXS later down the line.

Could someone clear up the Shimano specs for me? On the 9100 page it says " low sprocket max" = 30T but then further below says "total capacity" = 35T. What's the difference? My preference would be to run 11-32


Think about changing gearing on single speed bike. You'd need a much longer chain for a 52T/30T F/R combo than a 36T/11T, right? Besides changing gears, the rear derailleur's job on a multi speed bike is to take up that difference while retaining chain tension. Total Capacity is an indication of how much "spare chain length" the derailleur can accommodate. The difference between the largest cog and smallest cog PLUS the difference between the biggest chainwheel and the smallest chainwheel should not exceed the Total Capacity. Take your 11-30T cassette (19T difference) and pair it with your typical 50/34 compact or 52/36 mid-compact crankset (16T difference), and you need 35T of Total Capacity out of your RD.

Since you're thinking about changing to a 1x, the derailleur has enough Total Capacity, theoretically, for an 11-46 cassette. That doesn't mean it can clear a 46T cog, though.

I don't have any experience with using a short-cage derailleur for 1x, so I can't tell you how big a cog it can clear. Most folks use a mid-cage or long-cage derailleur for 1x applications. Doesn't mean a short-cage won't work, just that you typically want larger cogs in a 1x than a short cage derailleur can clear. One way to increase the cog clearance is to use a Wolfe Tooth RoadLink. Note that the RoadLink does NOT add to the Total Capacity, just the cog clearance by altering the effective mounting point of the RD.

"They're made of latex, not nitroglycerin"
Last edited by: gary p: Mar 1, 19 5:04
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Re: 1x11 Ultegra RX or Force 1? [gary p] [ In reply to ]
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Thanks for that thorough explanation! That makes a lot of sense. I was not aware of that RoadLink product and that might be the ticket for this season for a low-budget switch

Edit: Does the RoadLink cause any shifting problems when in the smaller cogs, since the RD is made to be a certain distance from 11t and 12t cogs?
Last edited by: BigBoyND: Mar 1, 19 5:36
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Re: 1x11 Ultegra RX or Force 1? [BigBoyND] [ In reply to ]
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My experience with road and big cogs / short derailleurs.

I have run a 32 cog on my DA9000 with 100% shift performance. No issues. I don't think it will take anything bigger. I've run it with a 53-34 front as well (Pikes Peak). Front shifting is a little sketch, but you need to shift about 2 times on that climb in the front rings.

I have run the road link. There is compromise there and it will negatively impact performance. I have setup about 4 bikes this way. It's a poor man's way up Pikes Peak or Mt. Evans. That's it.

Therefore for 1 x 11 I'd recommend the mid cage or whatever comes with the new 8000, 9100, or go with the RX / Force 1. I would have zero hesitation running the straight road 8000 or 9100 cages on a road / Tri setup. As long as the front is narrow / wide.

24 Hour World TT Champs-American record holder
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Re: 1x11 Ultegra RX or Force 1? [BigBoyND] [ In reply to ]
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for a tri bike? i would only go electronic on tri bike so I'd go ultegra di2 1x in this situation
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Re: 1x11 Ultegra RX or Force 1? [BigBoyND] [ In reply to ]
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BigBoyND wrote:
I currently use a mechanical Shimano 9100. A NW chainring is all I need? My plan is to get the 3T Torno. 3T suggested they will have AXS compatibility soon, in case I change to AXS later down the line.

Every case is different I guess, but I'd run with that. I'm using a 9000. The clutch sucks some energy anyway.

And small rings and cogs are not ideal for TTs either. Some efficiency is lost and small cogs are not smooth (inherently).
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Re: 1x11 Ultegra RX or Force 1? [BigBoyND] [ In reply to ]
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BigBoyND wrote:
dangle wrote:
I don't think it matters. I have raced the last couple years on 1x without a clutched rear derailleur and have no complaints. Maybe choose based on your prefered shifters.


Interesting. And you didn't experience any chain drops in that period?


Not a single one for my tri/tt bike. 50 tooth NW Sram ring. Ultegra rear derailleur. I was mechanical the first year and had the spring in the low tension setting too. Electronic (no clutch) last year. Four half distance races and a handful of shorter ones those two seasons. I probably have <10 outdoor training rides on that bike per year, so that should be considered.

I have been 1x on my cyclocross bikes with 105 or Ultegra rear derailleurs (with NW rings) for the last 3 seasons. The derailleurs were always in the high tension setting. The only chain drop I had was in such apocalyptic mud that the chain was literally lifted up and over the ring from how much mud had built up around the chainring. I cleared it, put the chain back on and the rear derailleur was ripped off half a lap later from all that muck. I ripped another rear derailleur off in January in really crappy conditions, but there was never any hint of the chain coming off the chainring.

I have nothing against the newer clutched stuff (and had the first clutch shimano mt bike rear derailleur), but I haven't found a reason to replace anything I already own with clutched versions. It used to be that I would have picked Force 1 so I could throw in a bigger cassette if needed, but it seems like the newer Ultegra rx has about the same cassette swallowing ability. I don't like R2C shifters, so that's reason enough for me to choose Shimano for mechanical tri/tt.

The narrow wide chainring is the most important piece of the equation.
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Re: 1x11 Ultegra RX or Force 1? [BigBoyND] [ In reply to ]
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If you're doing this for the road (TT/triathlon), I would use neither of those derailleurs. A clutch is not necessary and a clutch introduces a tiny bit of drag. I would go with a mid-cage Shimano Ultegra (non-RX) derailleur and call it good.

Before the RX derailleur came out, I rode several seasons on gravel (including extremely rough gravel) without a clutch rear derailleur and never dropped a chain. But I did use a Force1 crankset and chainring. The contours of the teeth on the Force1 chainrings keep the chain under control.
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Re: 1x11 Ultegra RX or Force 1? [cmscat50] [COBRI] [dangle] [FlashBazbo] [ In reply to ]
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I appreciate the input, everyone. Thank you.

cmscat50 wrote:
My experience with road and big cogs / short derailleurs.

I have run a 32 cog on my DA9000 with 100% shift performance. No issues. I don't think it will take anything bigger. I've run it with a 53-34 front as well (Pikes Peak). Front shifting is a little sketch, but you need to shift about 2 times on that climb in the front rings.

I have run the road link. There is compromise there and it will negatively impact performance. I have setup about 4 bikes this way. It's a poor man's way up Pikes Peak or Mt. Evans. That's it.

Therefore for 1 x 11 I'd recommend the mid cage or whatever comes with the new 8000, 9100, or go with the RX / Force 1. I would have zero hesitation running the straight road 8000 or 9100 cages on a road / Tri setup. As long as the front is narrow / wide.

The DA9000 is rated for 28t max, so that's interesting that it can clear 32t on your bike. The DA9100, which is what I have, is only offered in one cage length and rated up to 30t. Maybe I should just try it with 32t and see if it all clears.

COBRI wrote:
for a tri bike? i would only go electronic on tri bike so I'd go ultegra di2 1x in this situation

I respect that, but I'm sticking with mechanical for now, so that would keep SRAM in play

rruff wrote:

Every case is different I guess, but I'd run with that. I'm using a 9000. The clutch sucks some energy anyway.

And small rings and cogs are not ideal for TTs either. Some efficiency is lost and small cogs are not smooth (inherently).

Good points. I didn't know NW chain rings are sufficient to keep the chain from dropping.

I spend most of my time in the 52 ring and 15t cog. I doubt that 44 ring and 13t. Should cost about 1W if Diamondback's data is accurate (first and second bar charts combined) https://ride.diamondback.com/...files-1x-drivetrains

On the flip side, they also estimate (not measure, in this case) that the clutch only adds 1W.

Good to quantify "some efficiency" since it can always be more or less than intuition dictates.

dangle wrote:
Not a single one for my tri/tt bike. 50 tooth NW Sram ring. Ultegra rear derailleur. I was mechanical the first year and had the spring in the low tension setting too. Electronic (no clutch) last year. Four half distance races and a handful of shorter ones those two seasons. I probably have <10 outdoor training rides on that bike per year, so that should be considered.

I have been 1x on my cyclocross bikes with 105 or Ultegra rear derailleurs (with NW rings) for the last 3 seasons. The derailleurs were always in the high tension setting. The only chain drop I had was in such apocalyptic mud that the chain was literally lifted up and over the ring from how much mud had built up around the chainring. I cleared it, put the chain back on and the rear derailleur was ripped off half a lap later from all that muck. I ripped another rear derailleur off in January in really crappy conditions, but there was never any hint of the chain coming off the chainring.

I have nothing against the newer clutched stuff (and had the first clutch shimano mt bike rear derailleur), but I haven't found a reason to replace anything I already own with clutched versions. It used to be that I would have picked Force 1 so I could throw in a bigger cassette if needed, but it seems like the newer Ultegra rx has about the same cassette swallowing ability. I don't like R2C shifters, so that's reason enough for me to choose Shimano for mechanical tri/tt.

The narrow wide chainring is the most important piece of the equation.

FlashBazbo wrote:
If you're doing this for the road (TT/triathlon), I would use neither of those derailleurs. A clutch is not necessary and a clutch introduces a tiny bit of drag. I would go with a mid-cage Shimano Ultegra (non-RX) derailleur and call it good.
Before the RX derailleur came out, I rode several seasons on gravel (including extremely rough gravel) without a clutch rear derailleur and never dropped a chain. But I did use a Force1 crankset and chainring. The contours of the teeth on the Force1 chainrings keep the chain under control.

Great anecdotes, thank you. If the clutch isn't needed for gravel, I don't expect to need it for tri. Admittedly I also wasn't aware of the tension settings. For 1x tt/tri duty, is low sufficient or is high recommended just in case?
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