All swimmers I think remember those days as hell. But in all honesty, when I look back at those practices, they were really hard, but they made me stronger both mentally and physically (it must be the reason I enjoy putting myself through misery all these years later). I understand you worry about burnout, but try to encourage him to go and have fun-healthy competition. I can remember having practices where I hated being there, from the moment the carpool started until I went to bed, but today what I remember are the practices where I surprised myself on how good I could be. Make him go, you'll know when it's been too much.

I do remember surviving such workouts fondly from college and high school, but eight years old seems a little young to me for "hell weeks".

Yes, I have memories of this kind of thing--bad memories. 3 a days when in college. IMHO, 8 years old is way too young to start doing this kind of stuff unless you are pushing your kid to a shot at the Olympics. Even then, I think it is too young--an 8 y/o might think they want to be in the Olympics, but they really don't have the mental capacity at that age to understand that kind of committment. I knew a lot of kids who were amazing swimmers, but were burnt out and hated their parents by the time they were 14-15 b/c of this kind of pressure. So, I say, let the kid do it, but if he wants to skip a workout or two, let him. If he doesn't get the T-shirt--so what?

What kind of distance/ time are we talking about?

Deke

14th birthday - 100 x 100's and every 10th 100 the next 100 was butterfly.

Every second weekend was club weekend where we would double up from Friday thru to Monday, some weeks we would even stay Friday and Saturday night at the pool, like a big sleep over.

I didn't have parents so it was my choice to go and I loved it and regret when I left to play with motocross. I think if they know they have the choice to stop and its not a failure then sure why not.

Remeber its often the parents who are more likely to get caught up in it than the kids.

Alright, I understand the age thing, but how hard is it really going to be for an 8 y/o? It should be hard, not ridiculously hard...find out how many yards they will be putting in. For that age group, I wouldn't think they'd do more than 3k a practice...you never know, regardless of his age, he might enjoy it.

The days leading up to Christmas training were always a mixture of anticipation and dread- you knew it was going to hurt, but it was exciting to challenge yourself and discover you could do things you never thought you could handle. I look back now, and say "gee that was fun"

Encourage him- tell him you're proud of how hard he's working in the pool. Bring cookies or treats for after practice- he's earned the sugar.

Having said that, with the 8 & unders, I really hope the coach is structuring it more as a mental challenge than some sort of huge physical challenges for kids that young. IMO, no need to be giving kids insane interval anaerobic threshold workouts until they're getting close to hitting puberty. 10 & unders should be mostly sprint skills, starts and turns, confidence-building, and general stroke development.

Sorry, not a swimmer, but to me, "torture", "8 years old", and "holidays" don't go too well in the same sentence. Consider getting an Exercise Physiology text from a college library - there are several books that I've seen which deal w/ kids specifically.

How does he feel about it?

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i think it all depends on what the workouts are. applying the name 'ten days of torture' sounds bad but if an 8 yr old normally does 1500 yds per practice i doubt the coach will be going up to 6000 yds of practice. if youre really concerned find out what the practices exactly consist of before getting all nervous. as long as the coach has a brain the practices will be tough but only relative to what the kids have been experiencing already. it may not necessarily be anything other than difficult, but its all relative.

The practices are 1hr15min, 4x/week (thus, the 10 days will take 2.5 weeks over the holidays) and the yardage will be approx. 3000 - 4000. I've watched him and the kids in his lane swim 20 repeats of 50s on 1:15 (scy) and they do a lot of 75 repeats - I'm guessing the interval distances will be upped. Right now his 25/50 scy times are 16:5/36.0 - free; 19.5/41.0 - back; 23.5/50.0 - breast; 17.5/40.0 - fly; and his 200IM time was 3:15. Right now he loves it, does well at the meets and prides himself as a "swimmer" - since he was blessed with his dad's LH dribble ability (none!) that's a good thing.

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kangaroo -- please do not read or respond to any of my posts

I wouldn't be surprised if most of the kids are moderately /easily capable of the extra workouts and they are titled the way they are to give the kids a mental boost a la "I survived the hardest 10 days ever. I can do anything."



I say go for it if he wants to, and then monitor closely for signs of wear, depression, anxiety, or burnout. I remember doing some dumb things at that age just to get bragging rights from my peers, and if I could go back I'd do it all over again.

I don't think those are wildly crazy distances - as long as he likes it. I was an elite swimmer in my time ('80s and '90s) and it did seem like it helped to have done some mileage as a kid. Why do you think TI is so successful? - it's almost impossible to be a great swimmer unless you did this stuff as a kid. If someone's making him do it, and he hates it, that's a whole differrent deal. Swimming is not like running; you don't turn your body into dust with mileage, it just can make you hate it.

Deke

I remember 12km days when I was 11 and 12. 6km in the morning and 6km in the evening during the height of what I now know to be the "volume" phase.

I don't think I was conscious of not liking it at the time but as soon as I went away to school and could make my own decisions, I stopped swimming. Took me a long time to get back into enjoying swimming.

Not sure how direct the connection is though. I could have just gotten lazy. To be honest, those base miles have stood me in good stead as an adult so I shouldn't complain too much. I don't have to put in as much time as others into the swimming leg

Did a Christmas camp every year from age 6 to 22. Lots of training but lots of fun too. Usually would do some really difficult sets mixed in with some fun sets. These are chances to put in some miles but it is also a team building thing. I wouldn't take the name too seriously - probably tongue in cheek by the coach. I am now in my 30's and was planning on doing one on my own this year (partially as I will be visiting the in-laws and it is a good excuse to stay out of the house and out of trouble).

You kid will be exhausted, but it as long as they aren't doing lots of weights or non-age appropriate stuff, he will probably remember it fondly. Especially if he gets a shirt. I lived for every prize I could get when I was that age, actually, still do... :).

As long as you have some level of faith in the coach, shouldn't be a problem. If you are really concerned, talk to some of the other parents who were there last year.

Remind him about the shirt... Bragging rights at school.

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"which is like watching one of your buddies announce that he's quitting booze and cigarettes, switching to a Vegan diet and training for triathalons ... but he's going to keep snorting heroin." Bill Simmons, ESPN

I wouldn't take the name too seriously - probably tongue in cheek by the coach.

You're right on there - from what I've seen, these kids are pumped for the challenge. Surviving "torture" as an 8yo can seem like quite an accomplishment.

As long as you have some level of faith in the coach, shouldn't be a problem.

Thanks, this team is well-established and well-coached.

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To all, thanks for all of the thoughts posted by the swimmers out there. Tonight begins the "torture test" - we'll see how it goes!

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kangaroo -- please do not read or respond to any of my posts

I remember torture workouts over the holidays in high school, college and master's workouts. That said, I don't think that 8 yr old children should be informed that their workouts are intended as torture. I also question large doses of yardage at this point. The key to great swimming is technique not distance. Having young kids repeat poor form for long distances is only engraining poor swimming technique. In addition. young kids' technique break down rather quickly.

I would question the coach and possibly look into a new program if this coach believes that at age 8 kids need to be doing a lot of yardage and a lot of threshold work.

Christmas training was always hell....and I couldn't wait! I loved it. BIG time braggin rights, especially in college. (wimpy sprinters are easy pickings for the distance boys!) Great team bonding, great mental and physical toughness....and probable a little much for an 8 years old. Make sure there isn't a lot of weights and/or dryland. And not HUGE yardage either. Other then that, he will have a blast!

-bcreager

The other thing. A lot of times the whole team swims more at the same time. Versus normally when the big kids swim separately. It is a big thrill for the 8 year old to 'do the same workout as the big kids' (note the quotes, obviously set would be adjusted, perception is often more important than reality in this case). I found this is when I got most of my role models, I would see a guy 6 or 7 years older than me just working his butt off and swimming what seemed to me to be really fast times, I would decide that I wanted to be like him when I grew up.

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"which is like watching one of your buddies announce that he's quitting booze and cigarettes, switching to a Vegan diet and training for triathalons ... but he's going to keep snorting heroin." Bill Simmons, ESPN

8 years old seems like a little young to be swimming anything remotely entitled torture. That being said, 4 days a week isnt too bad.

I just don't understand why swim coaches feel the need to ramp up the yardage to kids under 13. I feel like before 13 the only important thing in the pool is technique. I wish my team had been a "technique" team when I was small, it would've made my HS and College swimming so much easier.

Let your kid swim the "torture" week, but if you start hearing "this is boring, this is stupid" etc, I would yank him out of practice and let him play basketball or baseball or go running or something else.

I didn't swim year round till I was 10. I know a lot of people that didn't start year round swimming till they were in HS. Olympic Gold Medalist Rachel Komisarz started swimming year round when she was 16. She is now 1:58 in the long course 200free, 58 in the long course 100fly, and sub 16min in the short course mile.

I don't think a hell week when you're 8 years old will improve your swimming ability later in life.

Totally agree with Kuendig. Too few coaches teach technique and drills to get kids swimming correctly. Any idiot with a clipboard can tell you to swim more laps and write a "torture" practice.

as a swim coach, i say this is Absolutely NOT appropriate for an eight year old...they need to be focusing on technique, technique, technique with a foundation in learning how to train aerobically. No need to start training like that for at least two years...doubles starting at around age ten is the earliest i'd recommend. it makes sense to train little ones a bit more around the holidays, but big workouts aren't the way to go at this age in my book.

I'd be interested to know what you consider (as a coach) a "big workout" for an 8yo - times per week/length (time) of practice/yardage/interval sets?

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kangaroo -- please do not read or respond to any of my posts

I agree. I didn't start lifing weights and swimming more then twice a day until I was 14 (club rules). Sounds like it is going to be stretched out over a longer period though (2 weeks). Are they doing more then one workout a day? Working out 7 days a week? If so, definetly too much. I think if they are stretching it out a bit, and if the coach knows what he is doing (not all do, will he know when the swimmer are broken down and need a recovery workout) then it should be ok!

-bcreager

I don't think he's talking about doubles - the post above says 4 w/o per week.

Deke