Carl Spackler wrote:
MvdP looked like Morkov over in Italy today.Made it look easy.
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Re: **SPOILERS** Bike Racing Thread, 2023 [Carl Spackler]
[ In reply to ]
Made it look easy.
Re: **SPOILERS** Bike Racing Thread, 2023 [McNulty]
[ In reply to ]
what happens if Jonas drop Pogi today...?
The entire event (IM) is like "death by 1000 cuts" and the best race is minimizing all those cuts and losing less blood than the other guy. - Dev
The entire event (IM) is like "death by 1000 cuts" and the best race is minimizing all those cuts and losing less blood than the other guy. - Dev
Re: **SPOILERS** Bike Racing Thread, 2023 [LuisDF]
[ In reply to ]
LuisDF wrote:
what happens if Jonas drop Pogi today...?ohhh well lol
pogi gave it to jonas real quick
The entire event (IM) is like "death by 1000 cuts" and the best race is minimizing all those cuts and losing less blood than the other guy. - Dev
Re: **SPOILERS** Bike Racing Thread, 2023 [LuisDF]
[ In reply to ]
Re: **SPOILERS** Bike Racing Thread, 2023 [trail]
[ In reply to ]
trail wrote:
LuisDF wrote:
ohhh well lol
pogi gave it to jonas real quick
Remember the old days when we didn't expect TdF GC guys to show their world-beating form until maybe the Dauphine?
No longer. Tadej don't care. He rolls from February to September.
100%
it would have been great if jonas at least keep up with him but at the end of the day it's early in the season and many things can happen from now on until the tdf
pogi is the best rider nowadays lbs for lbs
The entire event (IM) is like "death by 1000 cuts" and the best race is minimizing all those cuts and losing less blood than the other guy. - Dev
Re: **SPOILERS** Bike Racing Thread, 2023 [LuisDF]
[ In reply to ]
Off the top rope with the People’s Elbow; :55 differential (with time bonus) in 2k.
Cracking ride from Gaudu.
Cracking ride from Gaudu.
Re: **SPOILERS** Bike Racing Thread, 2023 [trail]
[ In reply to ]
Shades of his 2021 Lombardia win when he dragged Masnada all over and still smoked him in sprint.
Re: **SPOILERS** Bike Racing Thread, 2023 [Carl Spackler]
[ In reply to ]
I kinda feel jonas can't take on Pogi on his own - Primo attack during the tdf was what cracked Pogi IMO cause he had to respond to multiple attacks and after that day Jonas mostly played defense until the last few Ks
Not sure how I feel with JV just taking jonas to tdf and letting Primo right the Giro.
The entire event (IM) is like "death by 1000 cuts" and the best race is minimizing all those cuts and losing less blood than the other guy. - Dev
Not sure how I feel with JV just taking jonas to tdf and letting Primo right the Giro.
The entire event (IM) is like "death by 1000 cuts" and the best race is minimizing all those cuts and losing less blood than the other guy. - Dev
Re: **SPOILERS** Bike Racing Thread, 2023 [LuisDF]
[ In reply to ]
LuisDF wrote:
Not sure how I feel with JV just taking jonas to tdf and letting Primo right the Giro.
Yeah, if I'm JV DS I'm at my whiteboard right now shuffling around so Roglic, Wout, and Kuss are at the TdF. It's gonna take a team effort. Get Roglic's head in the right place. TaddyPo is a wrecking ball this year.
Re: **SPOILERS** Bike Racing Thread, 2023 [LuisDF]
[ In reply to ]
Agreed. If Primo can hang with PoGo on climb he’s really the only guy with a shot at taking him. PoGo has racked up what, :20 in time bonuses? He can hit from every angle where Vinge pretty much has to rely on the long climbs.
Long way to Paris but I’m sure JV isn’t liking any of what’s transpired.
Long way to Paris but I’m sure JV isn’t liking any of what’s transpired.
Re: **SPOILERS** Bike Racing Thread, 2023 [trail]
[ In reply to ]
Race win #51, and he’s 24. And that already includes 3 monuments along with two Tours. Remco who?
And message to JV DS: if PoGo smiles at the camera after covering your guy’s move, the stage might not go your way.
And message to JV DS: if PoGo smiles at the camera after covering your guy’s move, the stage might not go your way.
Last edited by:
Carl Spackler: Mar 8, 23 8:10
Re: **SPOILERS** Bike Racing Thread, 2023 [LuisDF]
[ In reply to ]
LuisDF wrote:
I kinda feel jonas can't take on Pogi on his own - Primo attack during the tdf was what cracked Pogi IMO cause he had to respond to multiple attacks and after that day Jonas mostly played defense until the last few Ks Not sure how I feel with JV just taking jonas to tdf and letting Primo right the Giro.
Roglic is a beast, but I don't see him wired to fully commit to Jonas in a support role. Like Movistar beating a dead horse trying to get Valverde doing anything other than racing for himself despite having options to even with the Tour with Quintana. JV are smarter and more organized.
First round is going decisively to Pogi. I think that Jonas has a much stronger team and that could make a difference in a three week race.
Some interesting recent talks about JV having better equipment than Pogi. Not sure I believe this. The new Colnago TT bike looks really well designed and it can't be that far off the Cervelo. So maybe a few seconds in the TTs but if Pogi can go uphill like today, it might not matter.
Really want to see the numbers for the last climb. No secret than these two guys are pushing 6.7 w/kg for 20 minutes but it wouldn't surprise me if they are getting closer and closer to the 7 w/kg mark.
Re: **SPOILERS** Bike Racing Thread, 2023 [Carl Spackler]
[ In reply to ]
Carl Spackler wrote:
MvdP looked like Morkov over in Italy today.I don't think I've seen a successful 400 m lead-out before. Morkov is impressive in that he can go from 1.2 km left to ~400 m, so the lead out doesn't have to do as long of a turn. But to go from ~500 m to ~100 m is a much taller ask, for any slow down is an excuse for other sprinters to swarm, and b/c it's a long drawn-out sprint. MvdP has the physiology for it but didn't have the tactics down last year. Now he's worked on the tactics aspect as well...
Re: **SPOILERS** Bike Racing Thread, 2023 [Carl Spackler]
[ In reply to ]
Carl Spackler wrote:
Race win #51, and he’s 24. And that already includes 3 monuments along with two Tours. Remco who? And message to JV DS: if PoGo smiles at the camera after covering your guy’s move, the stage might not go your way.
50 sec in 2k was a kick in the nuts for JV...
The entire event (IM) is like "death by 1000 cuts" and the best race is minimizing all those cuts and losing less blood than the other guy. - Dev
Re: **SPOILERS** Bike Racing Thread, 2023 [Engner66]
[ In reply to ]
Engner66 wrote:
LuisDF wrote:
I kinda feel jonas can't take on Pogi on his own - Primo attack during the tdf was what cracked Pogi IMO cause he had to respond to multiple attacks and after that day Jonas mostly played defense until the last few Ks Not sure how I feel with JV just taking jonas to tdf and letting Primo right the Giro.
Roglic is a beast, but I don't see him wired to fully commit to Jonas in a support role. Like Movistar beating a dead horse trying to get Valverde doing anything other than racing for himself despite having options to even with the Tour with Quintana. JV are smarter and more organized.
First round is going decisively to Pogi. I think that Jonas has a much stronger team and that could make a difference in a three week race.
Some interesting recent talks about JV having better equipment than Pogi. Not sure I believe this. The new Colnago TT bike looks really well designed and it can't be that far off the Cervelo. So maybe a few seconds in the TTs but if Pogi can go uphill like today, it might not matter.
Really want to see the numbers for the last climb. No secret than these two guys are pushing 6.7 w/kg for 20 minutes but it wouldn't surprise me if they are getting closer and closer to the 7 w/kg mark.
yeah I don't think the equipment numbers are that bad - it's not like he is racing in a colagno from 1990s...
It will be wise for JV to tell Roglic to go to the tdf as number 2 and if something happens then boom you are our number 1 option.
at least now JV will need to thing and rethink their strategy for the tdf
The entire event (IM) is like "death by 1000 cuts" and the best race is minimizing all those cuts and losing less blood than the other guy. - Dev
Re: **SPOILERS** Bike Racing Thread, 2023 [Engner66]
[ In reply to ]
Engner66 wrote:
Roglic is a beast, but I don't see him wired to fully commit to Jonas in a support role. Like Movistar beating a dead horse trying to get Valverde doing anything other than racing for himself despite having options to even with the Tour with Quintana. JV are smarter and more organized. First round is going decisively to Pogi. I think that Jonas has a much stronger team and that could make a difference in a three week race.
Roglic has shown to be a good team guy though - thinking back to the Tour when he got real banged up but pushed through for a while to help the team. Most other GC guys would probably have dropped out once it was clear they had no chance of contending for yellow. Roglic tough as nails and kept riding. And if you give him the Giro (and he wins it) then you could see it being easier to send him to the Tour in the #2 role rather than co-leader.
As for JV vs UAE, JV has better rouleurs but for climbers UAE is pretty stacked:
JV: Vingegaard, Roglic, WvA, Dennis, Gesink, Kuss, Kruijswijk, Kelderman, etc.
UAE: Pogi, Almeida, Covi, Ayuso, Bennett, Formolo, Grossschartner, Hirshi, Majka, McNulty, Soler, Vine, Yates, Ulissi
Re: **SPOILERS** Bike Racing Thread, 2023 [echappist]
[ In reply to ]
echappist wrote:
Carl Spackler wrote:
MvdP looked like Morkov over in Italy today.I don't think I've seen a successful 400 m lead-out before. Morkov is impressive in that he can go from 1.2 km left to ~400 m, so the lead out doesn't have to do as long of a turn. But to go from ~500 m to ~100 m is a much taller ask, for any slow down is an excuse for other sprinters to swarm, and b/c it's a long drawn-out sprint. MvdP has the physiology for it but didn't have the tactics down last year. Now he's worked on the tactics aspect as well...
This run in was also built for him to leadout. Big sweeping left, then a right, and then the chicane in the last km. He powered through all of those, and shook off a few big boys in the process.
Re: **SPOILERS** Bike Racing Thread, 2023 [Carl Spackler]
[ In reply to ]
Carl Spackler wrote:
Agreed. If Primo can hang with PoGo on climb he’s really the only guy with a shot at taking him. PoGo has racked up what, :20 in time bonuses? He can hit from every angle where Vinge pretty much has to rely on the long climbs. Long way to Paris but I’m sure JV isn’t liking any of what’s transpired.
That was a clear cut case of T PO saying to Venga, FAFO.
Re: **SPOILERS** Bike Racing Thread, 2023 [McNulty]
[ In reply to ]
McNulty wrote:
That was a clear cut case of T PO saying to Venga, FAFO.
It was, but though Taddy is a good kid, he's getting a *little* cocky with that attitude for a March race. I don't mind it because it's good entertainment. But I'd be wary of leaving material for WvA to post on his fridge and look at every morning through to
July.
Re: **SPOILERS** Bike Racing Thread, 2023 [Engner66]
[ In reply to ]
I’m not so sure JV has a stronger Tour team. UAE doesn’t have a Wout and/or Sepp but their lineup is fearsome: Wellens and Bjerg for flat days; Majka, Bennett and McNulty in the high mountains; and some combo of Grossschartner, Formolo, Hirschi and Soler to round out. Maybe Ayuso as plan B? Think Almeida and Vine are heading to Giro but either would slot into pretty much any GT squad.
Re: **SPOILERS** Bike Racing Thread, 2023 [ClayDavis]
[ In reply to ]
ClayDavis wrote:
Engner66 wrote:
Roglic is a beast, but I don't see him wired to fully commit to Jonas in a support role. Like Movistar beating a dead horse trying to get Valverde doing anything other than racing for himself despite having options to even with the Tour with Quintana. JV are smarter and more organized. First round is going decisively to Pogi. I think that Jonas has a much stronger team and that could make a difference in a three week race.
Roglic has shown to be a good team guy though - thinking back to the Tour when he got real banged up but pushed through for a while to help the team. Most other GC guys would probably have dropped out once it was clear they had no chance of contending for yellow. Roglic tough as nails and kept riding. And if you give him the Giro (and he wins it) then you could see it being easier to send him to the Tour in the #2 role rather than co-leader.
As for JV vs UAE, JV has better rouleurs but for climbers UAE is pretty stacked:
JV: Vingegaard, Roglic, WvA, Dennis, Gesink, Kuss, Kruijswijk, Kelderman, etc.
UAE: Pogi, Almeida, Covi, Ayuso, Bennett, Formolo, Grossschartner, Hirshi, Majka, McNulty, Soler, Vine, Yates, Ulissi
Yeah, maybe I can see it. But if he peaks for the Giro he might not be that fit for the Tour. I might be judging Roglic a bit too hard after he blamed the British rider for his crash. It made it seem as if his head was not in a good place.
Team wise, I think JV can roll on flat terrain a bit better than UAE, but they are also a powerhouse and arguably more horsepower in the mountains.
Re: **SPOILERS** Bike Racing Thread, 2023 [trail]
[ In reply to ]
True, but nobody had an answer for his rampage through Italy last fall. Vinge will bring all his game in July but it appears as though PoGo has a different level of motivation. Vinge got close today but you could see PoGo put the bit between his teeth at the key moment, and that was it.
Re: **SPOILERS** Bike Racing Thread, 2023 [trail]
[ In reply to ]
trail wrote:
McNulty wrote:
That was a clear cut case of T PO saying to Venga, FAFO.
Concur was, but though Taddy is a good kid, he's getting a *little* cocky with that attitude for a March race. I don't mind it because it's good entertainment. But I'd be wary of leaving material for WvA to post on his fridge and look at every morning through to
July.
Concur.
I think they both have an abundance of confidence along with a youthful desire to flex and make statements. It's great stuff.
And they don't seem to be amigos when everyone seems to be T Po's amigo. Not animosity just yet. But there's hope.
A little argy bargy today.
Re: **SPOILERS** Bike Racing Thread, 2023 [McNulty]
[ In reply to ]
Crazy finish in Tirreno.
Fun Tirreno finish. Too bad WvA and Piddles took each other out.
Attila "trample the weak" Valter again looks like someone to keep track of for the likes of the Ardennes. He looked awfully comfortable controlling the field all the way up, pulling back Carthy.
Attila "trample the weak" Valter again looks like someone to keep track of for the likes of the Ardennes. He looked awfully comfortable controlling the field all the way up, pulling back Carthy.