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Re: **SPOILERS** Bike Racing Thread, 2023 [likes_bikes] [ In reply to ]
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likes_bikes wrote:
+1 on Sagan and +1000 on Arnaud de Lie. The kid is a stud.

Aside from Pidcock's insane ride the other rider who blew my mind was Romain Gregoire. He grew up around my in law's and we've run in to him and followed him since his youth. Taking a top 10 at Strade on your maiden voyage is crazy. He is going to have a big year and career, I just pray that FDJ don't try to turn him in to a GC rider and leave him a puncheur.

between puck, gregoire, and pidcock, i think the future belongs to punchy, skilled riders. a couple of 20-year-olds in the top 10? wild!

great races today, and interesting how many different kinds of riders can with this thing. you could even call it a climber's race - a poor climber could lose 30+ seconds in the last mile or two.

____________________________________
https://lshtm.academia.edu/MikeCallaghan

http://howtobeswiss.blogspot.ch/
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Re: **SPOILERS** Bike Racing Thread, 2023 [iron_mike] [ In reply to ]
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there was a pretty animated wave of the arm by Benoot when he looked back and saw Valter coming
it wasn't a happy, come join the party wave; it's hard (for me) not to interpret it as a " wtf "
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Re: **SPOILERS** Bike Racing Thread, 2023 [iron_mike] [ In reply to ]
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iron_mike wrote:
likes_bikes wrote:
+1 on Sagan and +1000 on Arnaud de Lie. The kid is a stud.

Aside from Pidcock's insane ride the other rider who blew my mind was Romain Gregoire. He grew up around my in law's and we've run in to him and followed him since his youth. Taking a top 10 at Strade on your maiden voyage is crazy. He is going to have a big year and career, I just pray that FDJ don't try to turn him in to a GC rider and leave him a puncheur.


between puck, gregoire, and pidcock, i think the future belongs to punchy, skilled riders. a couple of 20-year-olds in the top 10? wild!

great races today, and interesting how many different kinds of riders can with this thing. you could even call it a climber's race - a poor climber could lose 30+ seconds in the last mile or two.

I love these multi disciplined riders. They make everything so exciting, plus the way of racing is great. Pidcock said in an interview he did not intend to go so early in that sector, but when he put time into the others on the decent he just wanted to go for it.

Pidcock is something completely different. He's got 6.5+ w/kg for 30 minutes, plus he can sprint, plus he can lay down power, handle, etc. I'm still not sure how to classify him.
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Re: **SPOILERS** Bike Racing Thread, 2023 [eb] [ In reply to ]
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fredericknorton wrote:
crossers you say - pidcock is my other pick of the current listed starters
let's just get this posted as i like my picks from current list just fine:
MVdP, Pidcock, Wellens // darker horses - Costa, Benoot

Completely agree Matej is a great pick - he (in my opinion like MVdp, Pidcock) has serious snap over da hills

eb wrote:
van der Poel, Pidcock, Benoot
Bilbao, Wellens

Picks of the litter for this round, surely? I think @eb just edges it on tie-breaker (# of podiums picked)
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Re: **SPOILERS** Bike Racing Thread, 2023 [heyMartin] [ In reply to ]
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heyMartin wrote:
Phil G said the Ineos team car looked to have damage - but if it took out
Sheffield i wonder why it wasn't around where they were down ?

The video came out from the road and Alberto spoke briefly after the race. Sheffield turned to take a look and came in to Bettiol causing him to crash and crack his helmet. It sounds like he is "okay" but being monitored for concussion.

The Ineos car issue was apparently them going off road, but not involving riders.
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Re: **SPOILERS** Bike Racing Thread, 2023 [likes_bikes] [ In reply to ]
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likes_bikes wrote:
iron_mike wrote:
likes_bikes wrote:
+1 on Sagan and +1000 on Arnaud de Lie. The kid is a stud.

Aside from Pidcock's insane ride the other rider who blew my mind was Romain Gregoire. He grew up around my in law's and we've run in to him and followed him since his youth. Taking a top 10 at Strade on your maiden voyage is crazy. He is going to have a big year and career, I just pray that FDJ don't try to turn him in to a GC rider and leave him a puncheur.


between puck, gregoire, and pidcock, i think the future belongs to punchy, skilled riders. a couple of 20-year-olds in the top 10? wild!

great races today, and interesting how many different kinds of riders can with this thing. you could even call it a climber's race - a poor climber could lose 30+ seconds in the last mile or two.


I love these multi disciplined riders. They make everything so exciting, plus the way of racing is great. Pidcock said in an interview he did not intend to go so early in that sector, but when he put time into the others on the decent he just wanted to go for it.

Pidcock is something completely different. He's got 6.5+ w/kg for 30 minutes, plus he can sprint, plus he can lay down power, handle, etc. I'm still not sure how to classify him.

there was an amazing interview with him post-race, where someone asked him, "when did you know you had the legs to go for it?"
and he answered,
"tuesday."

____________________________________
https://lshtm.academia.edu/MikeCallaghan

http://howtobeswiss.blogspot.ch/
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Re: **SPOILERS** Bike Racing Thread, 2023 [echappist] [ In reply to ]
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echappist wrote:
fredericknorton wrote:
crossers you say - pidcock is my other pick of the current listed starters
let's just get this posted as i like my picks from current list just fine:
MVdP, Pidcock, Wellens // darker horses - Costa, Benoot

Completely agree Matej is a great pick - he (in my opinion like MVdp, Pidcock) has serious snap over da hills


eb wrote:
van der Poel, Pidcock, Benoot
Bilbao, Wellens


Picks of the litter for this round, surely? I think @eb just edges it on tie-breaker (# of podiums picked)

Looked like MvdP's back might've flared up - he seemed uncomfortable. It's a shame about Wellens, too. He was on a teammate's bike for a while. Anyone know what happened?

I was really hoping Bilbao could bridge, but 7th was not too bad.
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Re: **SPOILERS** Bike Racing Thread, 2023 [eb] [ In reply to ]
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MvdP: “I still need some race hardness and that is normal. I survived the most difficult gravel sections well, but my legs were not good enough to follow the decisive attack.”

No mention of his back problems.
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Re: **SPOILERS** Bike Racing Thread, 2023 [jstonebarger] [ In reply to ]
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I'm glad to hear that about Mathieu.

I re-watched Pidcock's descent at 49 km to go and I've never seen anything like that on gravel. He put 30 seconds in to those guys so quickly that he ultimately blew past the moto.
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Re: **SPOILERS** Bike Racing Thread, 2023 [eb] [ In reply to ]
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eb wrote:
echappist wrote:
fredericknorton wrote:
crossers you say - pidcock is my other pick of the current listed starters
let's just get this posted as i like my picks from current list just fine:
MVdP, Pidcock, Wellens // darker horses - Costa, Benoot

Completely agree Matej is a great pick - he (in my opinion like MVdp, Pidcock) has serious snap over da hills


eb wrote:
van der Poel, Pidcock, Benoot
Bilbao, Wellens
It's a shame about Wellens, too. He was on a teammate's bike for a while. Anyone know what happened.

Flatted or worse on a gravel sector with race on so he grabbed a bike. It was a tough spot to chase back on so I think he wanted to move out fast instead of a wheel change.
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Re: **SPOILERS** Bike Racing Thread, 2023 [fredericknorton] [ In reply to ]
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fredericknorton wrote:

i'll be replaying that one a few times - after i replay the womens race first!

Vollering and Kopecky worked brilliantly together, but I felt a little chill after they crossed the line. No immediate embracing. They kind of went to their own spots. Eventually they became cordial. But ego management is tough at Jumbo-Visma and SD Worx.
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Re: **SPOILERS** Bike Racing Thread, 2023 [trail] [ In reply to ]
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Vollering shouted at her across the finish line "bitch." She was asked about it after and made light about it. Their body language across the line was curious and supposedly the team car did not give explicit instructions other than catch Faulkner. I think there is something spicy there, but who cares. I'm glad Vollering got the win. They are both awesome.
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Re: **SPOILERS** Bike Racing Thread, 2023 [likes_bikes] [ In reply to ]
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Just rewatched both.

Valter's move wasn't actually that different than Kopecky's. Vollering attacks, then a bit later Kopecky jumps and bridges mid sector so the two can chase down Faulkner. Just happened that a lot stronger riders in Valter's group were able to hang. Maybe he was a bit impetuous. And agree with others, I don't think either of them had enough regardless.

What is impressive is the fine line from week to week. A handful of riders at the pointy pointy end. And just a matter of perfect blend of rest/nutrition/confidence to have the better day. Pidcock was dialed. Great ride.
Last edited by: WannaB: Mar 4, 23 21:03
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Re: **SPOILERS** Bike Racing Thread, 2023 [likes_bikes] [ In reply to ]
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likes_bikes wrote:
Vollering shouted at her across the finish line "bitch." She was asked about it after and made light about it. Their body language across the line was curious and supposedly the team car did not give explicit instructions other than catch Faulkner. I think there is something spicy there, but who cares. I'm glad Vollering got the win. They are both awesome.

Worse than a mere “bitch”, which is teef


Vollering called Kopecky a k**wijf, literally c*** woman (k** and c*** are etymological cognates)

So more like c***y shrew, etc. in other words, rather harsh words
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Re: **SPOILERS** Bike Racing Thread, 2023 [echappist] [ In reply to ]
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echappist wrote:
likes_bikes wrote:
Vollering shouted at her across the finish line "bitch." She was asked about it after and made light about it. Their body language across the line was curious and supposedly the team car did not give explicit instructions other than catch Faulkner. I think there is something spicy there, but who cares. I'm glad Vollering got the win. They are both awesome.

Worse than a mere “bitch”, which is teef


Vollering called Kopecky a k**wijf, literally c*** woman (k** and c*** are etymological cognates)

So more like c***y shrew, etc. in other words, rather harsh words

Soooooo.........teamwork makes the dream work?
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Re: **SPOILERS** Bike Racing Thread, 2023 [McNulty] [ In reply to ]
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i also watched these again - 2 comments:
the kopecky bridge and the valter bridge are very similar but drastically different results. i say no way vollering gets to faulkner solo and if uttrup ludwig made it to vollering/kopecky i also think they never make it faulkner bc too much sitting on not giving away any advantages. that bridge worked perfectly. valter generated a gap with his jump but mohoric and simmons needed that carrot to latch to the front 3 (4 with valter). could benoot/costa/madous make it to pidcock without the 4 extra? hard to say - all 7 worked for a few minutes/next sector and the gap stayed the same (pidcock descents are amazing). i think the places dont change at all. i think this just goes to the team's philosophy - either its better to have more in front and risk the occasional extra rider with a bridge or not. I VASTLY prefer the bridge for numbers and more options and the aggressive mindset. teams definitely discuss these scenarios. benoot shouldn't have given away any emotion to the other 5 in my opinion. i do think once there valter should have taken 2-3 pulls for every one pull benoot takes.

who wins with 2 teammates in a move. with vollering and kopecky that should have been obvious by who did more in the chase. i think thats kopecky. once vollering's initial attack got snuffed by Faulkner drifting into her way and vollering didnt drop kopecky up the steeps - i don't think vollering should have tried to come around kopecky. i have to think kopecky will be working on her sprint against a teammate form (she knows its good enough against van vleuten!).

again - these were great races that had the finalists all on their limits - great spectating.
on a side note congrats to eb on the picks - I never get close on these - i thought costa would help me but honestly I was rooting against his anchor like riding producing a podium!
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Re: **SPOILERS** Bike Racing Thread, 2023 [fredericknorton] [ In reply to ]
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Whatever happened with TJV in G2, one thing is for certain and that is Costa is the anti-racer of the peloton. They focused far too much on him and that I think was the root of their issue.

Watching Paris-Nice right now and watching El Tractor mowing down the kms is a comforting thing.
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Re: **SPOILERS** Bike Racing Thread, 2023 [echappist] [ In reply to ]
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echappist wrote:
likes_bikes wrote:
Vollering shouted at her across the finish line "bitch." She was asked about it after and made light about it. Their body language across the line was curious and supposedly the team car did not give explicit instructions other than catch Faulkner. I think there is something spicy there, but who cares. I'm glad Vollering got the win. They are both awesome.


Worse than a mere “bitch”, which is teef


Vollering called Kopecky a k**wijf, literally c*** woman (k** and c*** are etymological cognates)

So more like c***y shrew, etc. in other words, rather harsh words

Yikes. There is some cultural nuance to that word. I heard it often in common good-hearted conversation in Europe, but that was in the English vernacular. If I said that word to my friends in the United States I might get a gun pulled on me. My mouth is not perfect and I used it a few times without concern and it honestly really upset a few people. Based on what you've written and the obvious oddness in their body language as well as interviews, they were heated words.

I hope this doesn't affect how they race together as they are great allies, but one has to wonder. Patrick Roe made a funny comment on his podcast that if that was LaPorte last year who decided to pip WvA on the line with a throw, he'd be fired from TJV. ;) Obviously an exaggeration and I hope both of these riders keep rolling along without this getting between them.
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Re: **SPOILERS** Bike Racing Thread, 2023 [echappist] [ In reply to ]
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I can see how in Vollering's mind she was going to get Faulkner and Lopecky chased her down and almost took the win away from her. But I really think she needed Lopecky's wattage to close the gap to Faulkner. Nothing wrong if race director's instructions were: girls, good luck in the sprint, let the best rider win. But then the c-word yell at the finish line was uncalled for.

Really looking forward to Paris-Nice's Pogacar vs Vingegaard. It is only March but they both know that there is a lot on the line as far as their first showdon is concerned. And here we go...first climb...and Pogacar goes.
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Re: **SPOILERS** Bike Racing Thread, 2023 [Engner66] [ In reply to ]
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Powless, Pog, Demare for bonifications on that climb! haha
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Re: **SPOILERS** Bike Racing Thread, 2023 [likes_bikes] [ In reply to ]
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likes_bikes wrote:
Powless, Pog, Demare for bonifications on that climb! haha

Mea culpa here for being puzzled at why WvA wouldn’t deign to thank his teammate ( i watched with the sound muted)

It was only after going on Procyclingstat that i remembered that Merlier is the reigning Belgian Road Race champ.

TJV seemed to have sent a second tier team to P-N
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Re: **SPOILERS** Bike Racing Thread, 2023 [Engner66] [ In reply to ]
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Engner66 wrote:
Really looking forward to Paris-Nice's Pogacar vs Vingegaard. It is only March but they both know that there is a lot on the line as far as their first showdon is concerned. And here we go...first climb...and Pogacar goes.

And then the two of them going all in for the Intermediate Sprint to try and steal the 6 seconds!

Great sprint with Florian off the front, Bora to close, and perfect timing by Merlier.
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Re: **SPOILERS** Bike Racing Thread, 2023 [Engner66] [ In reply to ]
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Engner66 wrote:
I can see how in Vollering's mind she was going to get Faulkner and Lopecky chased her down and almost took the win away from her. But I really think she needed Lopecky's wattage to close the gap to Faulkner. Nothing wrong if race director's instructions were: girls, good luck in the sprint, let the best rider win. But then the c-word yell at the finish line was uncalled for.

From what I can tell there were no instructions from the team car beyond "catch Faulkner" and the two of them didn't discuss what would happen at the end. Seems somehow that Vollering thought they'd cross the line together, and then when Lotte went she thought at first she might be leading her out. I supposed one could see Vollering think that Strade should be hers since Kopecky already got the Loop, but without a discussion you can't really be mad that racers gonna race.
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Re: **SPOILERS** Bike Racing Thread, 2023 [ClayDavis] [ In reply to ]
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Some real bullshit in GP Monsere today. Really not a good look for the organisers to not have a proper finish line camera as required.

I feel bad for Ewan who appears to have had a win stolen. And I feel bad for Thijssen who surely now knows that he didn't cross the line first.
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Re: **SPOILERS** Bike Racing Thread, 2023 [eb] [ In reply to ]
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eb wrote:


I feel bad for Ewan who appears to have had a win stolen. And I feel bad for Thijssen who surely now knows that he didn't cross the line first.


I never saw a great finish line shot (because maybe there wasn't one), but it looked like Thijssen won to me, at least if using the banner as the line. Sometimes the actual line is a bit before the banner, so hard to tell.

Either way, is there any more hard luck sprinter the past two years than Ewan?

Also Merlier is getting the Quick-Step bonus. I never thought of him as a pure top-shelf sprinter, but he's sure looking like it this year.
Last edited by: trail: Mar 5, 23 19:19
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