Yeah: "if I don't cheat, I'll be MOP"

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"Go yell at an M&M"

That's money!

I noticed the same thing. I got out of T1 pretty early and got smoked by very fast draft packs. Later in the day I saw a lot less and it was way more crowded. Got really bunched up on the hills (and there we a TON of them) but it evened out on the flats where it counts.

As a sidenote, I was amazed by the tech support on the bike. I kept thinking that draft marshals were coming up but it was almost always a tech support motorcycle. More numerous to count. It was nice to see. Maybe they could have used a couple more draft marshals though...

Jodi

Yeah: "if I don't cheat, I'll be MOP"

OK...you gonna come over here and clean the coffee offa my laptop screen and keyboard?

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"that which does not destroy me will only make me stronger" Frederick Nietzsche
andrew peabody
http://BREAKAWAYMULTISPORT.COM

I didn't notice too much drafting, even by the top guys who know how to ride together.

Where were you? Maybe you saw me. The supporters got me through the bike since I was alone all day, so thanks for that.

It was the same thing at hyvee last week. I know somepeople who have been averaging the same speed for the last two years magically drop 5-7 mins off their bike time.... Im like uh huh sure you weren't drafting.

Grant

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Grant
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My apologies. The whole thing would be funny if it weren't so sad.

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"Go yell at an M&M"

We were on Government Way, just south of Ironwood Drive. The drafting really was shameless.

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"People think it must be fun to be a super genius, but they don't realize how hard it is to put up with all the idiots in the world."

Look, every IMNA or WTC race in North America the same drafting comments get brought up. We should 1. Start an officail thread about drafting that automatically has the name of the just finished race auto populated into it and 2. Automatically pops up to the top of the forum the morning after the race.

The bottom line is if you race WTC/IMNA triathlon races you should learn to bike race. ITU style racing or close to it has hit the AG fields. People have three options, either rant about it after the race, not rant about it or just not freaking do the races. Since so many people have opted for not doing the race, ranting or not ranting are the only options left.

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Brian Stover USAT LII
Accelerate3 Coaching
Insta

Look, every IMNA or WTC race in North America the same drafting comments get brought up.

I am terribly sorry to bore you. I only bring it up because yesterday was my first opportunity to see for myself, and like I said, the drafting was completely egregious. And the primary offenders were the fast guys, and there isn't any excuse for it.

Maybe instead of telling everyone to just deal with it, you should be telling the drafters not to cheat, or telling the race officials to enforce the rules. I don't understand why this is controversial.

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"People think it must be fun to be a super genius, but they don't realize how hard it is to put up with all the idiots in the world."

Maybe instead of telling everyone to just deal with it, you should be telling the drafters not to cheat, or telling the race officials to enforce the rules. I don't understand why this is controversial.

Tom,

I think at some level it's philosophical. What is the bike leg in a triathlon? It's pretty hard to define, even for those in the sport and in the know. Is it a bike race? Well, not exactly. Is it a time-trial? Well, not exactly. What is it then? It's a sort of like a time trial, with a staggered start, based on your swim time/fitness, raced head to head, but with TT style bikes, with modified bike time-trial rules. Are you still with me? The swim is raced head-to-head, but drafting is allowed. The run is also raced head to head but drafting is allowed there to. Albeit drafting on the swim and run is not as big an advantage as the on the bike. My point is the bike leg in a triathlon is this weird hybrid of a thing that I think leaves more than a few confused.

The other problem as I see it is exactly no one actually rides in training, like the conditions they have in a race. People either ride completely on their own solo or they ride in a group. No one goes out in a large group and ride with exactly 7m( or what ever the drafting zone is today!!) between each rider and keep it that way for the whole ride. For many the ONLY time that they ride like that is in a race.

I am not making excuses, just calling it as I see it.

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Steve Fleck @stevefleck | Blog

I know a few of the officials from yesterday and I can assure you that they do give a crap. Rich Strauss and Jimm Ricc was out there and they are both hard core. I really saw less yesterday that usual from where I was sitting. A few big packs, but not too bad IMHO.

I had a interesting conversation with Mark form Champion Chip Friday. I have always thought that GPS tracking is the only way to eliminate cheating. The technology is on the way to be able to have a chip that will give proximity to other chips. So if you are with in 10 meters of another chip you are going to get a penalty. They accumulate so when you enter t2 and cross the mat, if you have a penalty, you go to the sin bin for your penalty time. Take the people out of the equasion.

This is being developed from freight and product tracking system. It will be a number of years before it gets to triathlon, but it will get here eventually.

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infinIT Nutrition
Custom Blended Nutrition Solutions
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That would be hilarious. Everyone will be sitting in the sin bin for a break after coming into T2 for all the NAS Ironman races that is for sure. The fact is there are too many people on too little real estate.
I would definitely go watch that race once they implement that technology.

Unfortunately, they don't care enough to get a bunch more motorcycles out there. I think this is one black eye that will eventually destroy our sport, as the egos of some cannot stand the fact that they aren't up front. This "macho" crap causes the drafting, and yes, my experience is that it usually is the faster, and younger(30-45 year old) age groups.

[reply]
I know a few of the officials from yesterday and I can assure you that they do give a crap. Rich Strauss and Jimm Ricc was out there and they are both hard core.
[hr]

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Gary Geiger
http://www.geigerphoto.com Professional photographer

TEAM KiWAMi NORTH AMERICA http://www.kiwamitri.com, Rudy Project http://www.rudyprojectusa.com, GU https://guenergy.com/shop/ ; Salming World Ambassador; https://www.shopsalming.com

The chip proximity feature probably is the only solution. Otherwise a drafter will just draft until he sees a motorcycle. The other option is to have officials standing at random points on the sidelines and have them radio in penalties

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Kat Hunter reports on the San Dimas Stage Race from inside the GC winning team
Aeroweenie.com -Compendium of Aero Data and Knowledge
Freelance sports & outdoors writer Kathryn Hunter

Interesting to see how that technology develops. How does it know which chip is the drafter and which is the draftee?

In the meantime, an increased presence of draft marshals on the course will go a long way, IMHO.

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I ride Felt.

"So if you are with in 10 meters of another chip you are going to get a penalty."

Of course that starts AFTER the 15 seconds you're allowed to make a pass... And the time allowed for the OTHER person to drop back. What if the other person DOESN'T drop back? You're the one who entered the zone, but the chip just accumulates time in the zone. Does the chip know that you passed but the other guy didn't back off? Or do you both just get the penalty?

Yes, technology may be the holy grail of solving the drafting "problem", but I don't think it's there yet.

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Some are born to move the world to live their fantasies...

https://triomultisport.com/
http://www.mjolnircycles.com/

And you wonder why I am trying to learn to do something of a semblence of a run and get into continental cup and ITU.

And plus... my beef with IM... is it's not racing except for the very very pointy end of the spectrum. I'd rather haul ass for four hour or less and be back at it within the week than participate in an atrition fest and be SOL for 3 weeks.

S-p-e-e-d is where it's at.
:)

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36 kona qualifiers 2006-'23 - 3 Kona Podiums - 4 OA IM AG wins - 5 IM AG wins - 18 70.3 AG wins
I ka nana no a 'ike -- by observing, one learns | Kulia i ka nu'u -- strive for excellence
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It is still all about numbers. Where I came out of the water at Lake Placid and leaving T1 there was no less than 50 people surrounding me going down that first hill. How would the chip handle those situations? Unless there is a drastic reduction in numbers, the drafting will never go away. And even then, I have come to realize people just don't understand what drafting entails. I had people overtake me this past weekend after just passing them 1 second earlier. The knowledge isn't there and I don't think most of them even care.

I agree. The early days, with Charlie Crawford demonstrating the rules with bikes at the mandatory meetings need to be brought back, WITH many more marshalls. I would like to see NA Sports make an all-out effort, at least in one race, to attack the problem with a large posse of marshals. Send a message, for a change.


[reply]
I had people overtake me this past weekend after just passing them 1 second earlier. The knowledge isn't there and I don't think most of them even care.[/reply]

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Gary Geiger
http://www.geigerphoto.com Professional photographer

TEAM KiWAMi NORTH AMERICA http://www.kiwamitri.com, Rudy Project http://www.rudyprojectusa.com, GU https://guenergy.com/shop/ ; Salming World Ambassador; https://www.shopsalming.com

The knowledge isn't there because they don't care, they don't care because they don't have to.

If more people get dinged for it, pretty soon, they'll smarten up and take care to stay legal.

Those committed to drafting will still do it, they're the cheaters and cheaters always will find a way, just like people who cut courses/loops, etc. I think a bulk of violations seen on courses are due to ignorance/not caring about what the rules are for overtaking/being overtaken. Increased presence of draft marshals and more people getting dinged will cause those people very quickly to cease their ignorance.

Non-compliance with the rules right now doesn't have much in the way of teeth.

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I ride Felt.

"as the egos of some cannot stand the fact that they aren't up front. This "macho" crap causes the drafting, and yes, my experience is that it usually is the faster, and younger(30-45 year old) age groups."

Being an FOP swimmer and biker, and sadly MOP runner, this is why I no longer race. Excellent post.