Chip, hasn't the Vet got an idea beyond the original spider guess?

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"How bad can it be?" - SimpleS

Nope - just that guess. The swelling is obviously down, now she spends most of her time in the "cone" to be sure that she does not scratch. Her vet is not so hot on the spider bite thing that the vet at the Animal ER was thinking.

What is odd - it is winter time. Any insect would have to be an indoor insect as there are not many things out in the ice. She is happy as ever however. Other than the scratching you would never know - and she hates the cone.

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What if the Hokey Pokey is what it is all about?

Chip, I got bit by a Brown Recluse (sp?) it did something like that to my arm, the venom kills some tissue (necromancidal...???I don't remember what the hell it is called but it looked about like that. Look up that spider, Brown Recluse (sp?) it looks like this:

http://www.calpoison.com/...ic/brown-recluse.jpg

it's bites CAN look like :

http://www.byteland.org/...cluse_bite_48hrs.jpg

I would put my $$$ on Estee crawling around in a shed, woodpile, bushg or something and one of those getting caught in her/his hair.

I did think at the time that I was surprised it wasn't too cold for spiders to be out around your neck of the woods. I'm not surprised that she has bounced back, you can't keep a retriever down for long, that why we love them!

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"How bad can it be?" - SimpleS

Chip...

That looks exactly like an infection that our Golden has had a couple of times...the vets here called them "hot spots". It comes from scratching a wound right there with their hind foot when they are trying to scratch their ears, which they will do if you let the inside get too dirty (not saying you do this, and in fact the inside of her ear looks really clean in that shot). Once they get a wound there, it often gets infected due to being covered up by their ears. The red marks all around the infected area are where she might have been scratching before.

Hope she gets better soon...

Spot

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Taco cat spelled backwards is....taco cat.

We all know better than to go to an online forum for medical advice for ourselves, but you'll ask for vet advice online?

My suggestion: get a second PROFESSIONAL opinion. That looks f'd up, and I'd be freaking out if my dog were going through something like that. I tend to be a bit over protective of my pup (he has already been abused by his first owners and luckily rescued) so I do my best to make sure he has the best of everything; I treat him like a kid.

With that said, I wouldn't be looking for advice on how to treat my kid online. Especially at a tri forum.

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"Lemond is cycling's version of Rev Jessie Jackson." -johnnyperu 5/18/07
"Just because I suck doesn't mean my bike has to" -rickn 9/2/08

That is what they said this morning. Spider bite leads to scratching leads to "hot spot".

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What if the Hokey Pokey is what it is all about?

Chip
That looks nasty! Hope she gets better soon. Having a sick pet is the worst.

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Train safe & smart
Bob

That poor dog. Let's hope she heels... er heals well.

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Yeah, Brown Recluse bites are NASTY. A guy I used to swim with in HAwaii got bitten on the hand reaching up into plam fronds while trimming cocnut trees. It looked like his arm was going to fall off.

Spiders are evil- look at what they do to innocent puppy dogs.

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Awww, Katy's not all THAT evil. Only slightly evil. In a good way. - JasoninHalifax

I wouldn't be so quick to jump on the "spider bite" bandwagon. Spider bites (and in particular, brown recluse spider bites) are often the diagnosis for any necrotic wound that doesn't have another explanation, at least in human patients. Please see the following links for more information on the mis- and over-diagnosis of brown recluse spider bites:

http://www.medscape.com/viewarticle/518429_5

http://dermatology.cdlib.org/...special/recluse.html

http://spiders.ucr.edu/necrotic.html

As Vetter (the last link) notes, these types of wounds may be caused by any one of a number of things, including bacterial, viral or fungal infections, Lyme disease, reactions to poisonous plants and vascular disorders.

Vetter also indicates that brown recluse spiders have a reasonably well-established range, illustrated by this map. If you live outside their natural range, I think brown recluse bite is a highly unlikely cause (and there aren't very many other spiders you could blame this on, either).


I'm sorry, I'm not a doctor or a vet, so I can't give you an explanation, but there are a number of avenues to explore. It could be an antibiotic-resistant staph infection that is becoming more common in humans, or the cause could be viral or fungal, which would also explain why antibiotics don't work.

Is there such a thing as a canine dermatologist? I know there are veterinary specialists in other fields (opthalmology, for example).

Thanks! We are WAY outside the range. Not sure where in the hell the bite theory came from.

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What if the Hokey Pokey is what it is all about?

One of our dogs got bit by a "spider" - at least that was the vet's diagnosis, it just swelled up in a big lump (similar to the initial picture you posted.) We didn't use one of those cones on him (due to the fact that he's humongous - lab/Newfie mix and our other dog would have just tugged it off his head) so he had ample opportunity to scratch at it despite our diligent efforts to keep him from doing so. When the swelling started to go down there were two small, distinct "fang marks" in the wound and it didn't have that dead tissue that Estee has, but it might be a different kind spider or the fact that our dog has black fur, so it might not be as noticeable. Hope Estee gets better, it sucks when they're sick/hurt.

Michelle

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The beatings will continue until morale improves

Chip, what you are seeing is probably not the "bite" itself, but the secondary infection caused by the dog scratching. It may not even been caused by a bite at all. I hope you vet checked for an ear infection. Not in your dog's case, but one of the most common causes of hot spots is impacted anal glands. Having worked for Vets for most of my adult life, I have seen hundreds of "hot spots'. They are usually caused by a dog getting carried away with a simple "itch". My own dog developed a "hot spot" from a small matt of hair under her elbow. Once the spot is infected, it itches like crazy and the dog will literally tear itself open scratching. Here in Florida many dogs develop hot spots from either fleas or skin allergies.

I wouldn't get too paranoid about something dangerous around. Just keep an eye of your dog if you see her scratching excessively.

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