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"On your left" - is it so hard to say?
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Every weekend I finish my ride intending to post this question. There are a lot of riders around here, and a lot of roads suited for riding. Some are narrow and twisty, and some are straighter with fast-moving traffic. In any case, there's not much room for error. My question - why is it so hard for people to say "on your left"? When I pass someone, no matter how fast I'm going, I can say it. The roadie or tri-geek moving up from behind me usually can't, putting both of us in danger if I'm four hours into a ride, going uphill, and maybe not holding the straightest line. These people are all experienced bike riders who cannot claim ignorance of etiquette.

Is this one of those stupid things people don't do because it's "un-cool"? Please tell me that's not it.

Oh, and, these same people, now this is just a rant, can't move over into the right side of the bike line when I pass them on the descent. They assume they're the fastest thing out there and there's no need for them to make room for other riders.
Last edited by: Striver: Apr 5, 05 11:05
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Re: "On your left" - is it so hard to say? [Striver] [ In reply to ]
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A couple of thoughts:

1. If I come up on someone on a ride, I am likley not going to blast by them. Typically, even if they are going slower, I will slow down, ease up on them, access the situation quickly regarding traffic and my safty, they may sense me by this point and then I will pull up beside them and chat with them for a bit. I would not shout out, "on the left" and blow by the person. To me this seems rather rude. After chatting I'll say, that I am riding at a faster pace today, bid them, Adieu and move on!

2. In a race - different story - when passing I would always say, "On the left". Reason: I am going hard and I want people to know I am coming through. I don't want them to be shocked when I do go by. Exceptions: When you get hoarse after 10K of shouting, "on your left" and you can't say it any more!Example: I was doing the bike leg for a relay team a few years ago at a big triathlon. The relay wave joined the field mid pack on the bike. People were ALL OVER the road on the bike - weaving dangerously about the road as they leaned on the aero-bars or reached behind the seat for waterbottles - or me weaving to avoid ejected waterbottles. I would say, "On The Left" and they would not move. I would say, "On the Left", and they would move left!! As I said, I gave up from hoarseness and frustration after 10K. I passed on the right where required. Even over the centre line, as needed, just like everyone else was - it was actually safer. It was nuts. Is this the way it is mid pack at most big triathlons? Yikes!

Fleck


Steve Fleck @stevefleck | Blog
Last edited by: Fleck: Apr 5, 05 11:27
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Re: "On your left" - is it so hard to say? [Striver] [ In reply to ]
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[reply]
Oh, and, these same people, now this is just a rant, can't move over into the right side of the bike line when I pass them on the descent. They assume they're the fastest thing out there and there's no need for them to make room for other riders.[/reply]

Then they get in their cars and hog the left lane on highways. Or they stand on left side of escalators.
It's the whole "I'm the center of universe and I don't have to pay attention to my surroundings" mentality that's so prevalent these days.
It's all about ME ME ME ME ME ME ME ME ME

As for me, I say "on your left" sometimes and sometimes I honk my clown horn.
Last edited by: haris: Apr 5, 05 11:41
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Re: "On your left" - is it so hard to say? [Striver] [ In reply to ]
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I only say "On your left" if there's not a lot of room to pass, if the cyclist looks like a newbie or is uncomfortable (this incudes weaving etc.), or if it's a jogger.

Usually I just give a good amount of room and say "Good morning."

I feel like such a prick.
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Re: "On your left" - is it so hard to say? [Striver] [ In reply to ]
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Hey, listen, on my left top tube, I've got a sticker which across reads:

"On Your Right."

On my right top tube, it says:

"If You Are Reading This You Are In Sad Shape"
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Re: "On your left" - is it so hard to say? [Pooks] [ In reply to ]
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Usually I just give a good amount of room......

And that is what fraction of an inch? :-)

Seriously,

There are rides (e.g. when I do intervals or other 'serious' training), when I won't slow down for a casual rider who is just out to socialize.

I will not interupt my workout just to chat with you! "On your left" is appropriate and NOT rude under those circumstances.

Everyone riding a bike should know that phrase (as well as the proper hand signals when turning or stopping).

Never forget that you are actually "operating a vehicle".



adrialin

(BOMK, racing drug and supplement free since 1985)
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Re: "On your left" - is it so hard to say? [Striver] [ In reply to ]
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Since I am riding Campy hubs, I sometimes just coast for a few feet when I come up behind people. The loud clicking coming out of the freehub usually lets them know I am back there. Oftentimes, they will jump out of their skin, almost.

Of course, this doesn't work in a triathlon where you don't want to stop pedaling every time you come up from behind someone, particularly in races where they start the 15 y/o girl's wave before the 45 y/o men's wave. Once you start getting fatigued, hoarse, or get a few move left after you say "on your left" you usually just give up.
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Re: "On your left" - is it so hard to say? [Striver] [ In reply to ]
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I've found that when passing some "newbies" that "On your left" can be interpreted as, "Move to your left" causing some dangerous encounters. I usually just use "Passing" and a "thank you" if on a multi-use trail, or if on a road, I usually don't say anything.

bri
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Re: "On your left" - is it so hard to say? [Striver] [ In reply to ]
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I rarely say anything, esp. downhill skiing (crusing down a road) or cycling: Why? Whenever I say anything, esp. "On your left." the idiots strolling down the trail freak out, look over their right shoulder and stumble into my path. I swear its much safer to say nothing and blow by them. If there's a ton of time and I can manage it, I slow down and give fair warning, but i think its usually safer to say nothing.

This refers to passing people on a path or road, not some narrow single track: esp. people walking or slowly biking while I bike past.
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Re: "On your left" - is it so hard to say? [Striver] [ In reply to ]
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I never say "On your left" unless someone is in my way and I want them to move. I was riding in a century last week and a group of roadies started riding 1 inch off my wheel and yelling "on your left" every time I passed someone. I don't need that! Whenever I have said "on your left" the newbie will look over their left shoulder and swerve in front of me.
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Re: "On your left" - is it so hard to say? [Pooks] [ In reply to ]
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I have passed thousands of people in my almost 40 years of cycling. Now it seems as more people are passing me than I am passing, but I have never once yelled "on your left" at any of the riders. That is a fairly new triathlete slang. I don't pass close and if the road is tight I might make myself known in a polite way. I don't even remember when the last time I didn't say good morning or Howzit in Hawaiian slang. I think yelling "on your left" is rude and infers that the person doing the passing has somehow relieved themselves of the responsibility of passing another rider safely and in a manner not to interfere with the progress or enjoyment of their ride.

Racing in triathlons these days sounds like a chatterfest. People yelling out rules violations, on your left, and other position problems. If people would just worry about their own progress and ride a straight line 3/4 of the chatter wouldn't have to be said. I am not exactly sure when this all started or maybe because I was in the front of the pack instead of the middle I just didn't hear it. But I sure think the sport has gotten rude. Which brings up some of the vindictive riding, where people half wheel then expect you to drop back and pass them only to be passed again in a few minutes and repete the whole thing over again.

So I guess in conclusion yes, yelling "on the left "and barging past someone is hard for me to say.
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Re: "On your left" - is it so hard to say? [Fleck] [ In reply to ]
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...and then there is the occasional rider who is really hard of hearing and is surprised by 18 wheelers.

Like me. So wide berth to the smiley sock guy with the Cippo zebra bar tape!
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Re: "On your left" - is it so hard to say? [Fleck] [ In reply to ]
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Hell, Fleck. You probably pass bikers, running, yelling "on your left."

=====================

Bikers: "Time to practice our pace line this morning, boys...Let's get going....man we are flying...nothing like feeling the tug of the pace line, such a beautiful day out here...what a feeling...I feel like I'm hardly moving...what are we at, 28 mph. Yikes."

Plop...plop...plop...plop....

"What's that noise behind us, Rodger?"

Plop...plop...plop...plop....

"Dammit, it's that Fleck guy, and he's gaining on us."

"But he's running!"

"Switch Bob up front, my legs are tired."

Plop...plop...plop...plop....

"He's going to pass us on foot!"

Plop...plop...plop...plop....

Fleck: "ON YOUR LEFT!"

"He did it, again!"
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Re: "On your left" - is it so hard to say? [Striver] [ In reply to ]
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I don't say anything because I believe the slower rider has right-of-way, and it's the passing rider's responsibility to pass safely. If it's safe to pass, the faster rider can do it without bothering the slower rider; if it's not safe to pass, shouting at the slower rider doesn't make it so.
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Re: "On your left" - is it so hard to say? [Striver] [ In reply to ]
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It's not un-cool, but it is dangerous.

Like any verbal signal in a noise-intensive environment where reaction time is critical a misinterpretaion can contribute to a collision.

It is easy for people to misinterpret any verbal command or warning. Their reaction is unpredictable. For that reason, if I am overtaking someone at a greater speed then I give them as wide a berth as possible but do not say anything that may startle them or cause them to alter their current (predictable) course.

Tom Demerly
The Tri Shop.com
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Re: "On your left" - is it so hard to say? [Amstel] [ In reply to ]
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I get the concern several have expressed about confusing newbie riders, but I'm relatively confident I do not appear as a newbie rider. And as others have pointed out, you're operating a vehicle. The reason to say "On your left" or "passing" or a number of other things, is because I may be reaching for my water bottle and move or something for just that one second and knock you, or me, or both of us, into traffic. Also, on some of these backroads, there are potholes and things I need to move to the left to avoid. I do look over my shoulder, but if someone comes up fast I might miss them. When I see a newbie, I say "Passing on your left" to try to be more clear.

I love Boothrand's sticker, where can I get one? :)
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Re: "On your left" - is it so hard to say? [Tom Demerly] [ In reply to ]
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Hmm...I guess part of my complaint is often these same folks are not passing in a safe manner (eg in the pothole example). Etiquette and laws and rules, in my opinion, are the tools we have to rely on because most of the population lacks common sense. I too believe I pass in a safe manner, but I recognize that the etiquette is there for a reason (or at least I thought it was the etiquette).

BTW, I thank folks who do say on your left, and I have had several people thank me as well. I'm not sure the confusion is as bad as some think.
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Re: "On your left" - is it so hard to say? [TB in MT] [ In reply to ]
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I agree, but making yourself noticed is always better than saying nothing.

They still might turn left or swerve into you, being unaware of you blasting by. You are obviously willing to take that risk.

I am not.

I agree that "Passing" might be the better yell....

Even better: Use a handlebar mounted bell. The roadies first laugh at me, but when they see that it works, they normally zip it.

I might even leave it on my bike for my next race :-) Weight penalty is maybe 25 grams, so I wouldn't care.

Passing a decked out Cervelo P3 with disk while ringing my bell ---------- priceless



adrialin

(BOMK, racing drug and supplement free since 1985)
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Re: "On your left" - is it so hard to say? [boothrand] [ In reply to ]
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you have two top tubes? bitchin'.
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Re: "On your left" - is it so hard to say? [Striver] [ In reply to ]
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"On your left" is code for me to start interval training and not let the chick on the $5000 tri-bike pass me.

_________________________________
I'll be what I am
A solitary man
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Re: "On your left" - is it so hard to say? [Striver] [ In reply to ]
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[reply]Every weekend I finish my ride intending to post this question. There are a lot of riders around here, and a lot of roads suited for riding. Some are narrow and twisty, and some are straighter with fast-moving traffic. In any case, there's not much room for error. My question - why is it so hard for people to say "on your left"? When I pass someone, no matter how fast I'm going, I can say it. The roadie or tri-geek moving up from behind me usually can't, putting both of us in danger if I'm four hours into a ride, going uphill, and maybe not holding the straightest line. These people are all experienced bike riders who cannot claim ignorance of etiquette.
[/reply]

There is a problem with saying on your left to both bikers and walkers. When you say that the recipient usually turns his/her head to the left to see what is coming. When they do this they will typically drift left (walkers do it also) into your path, creating a hazard. I once said this on a jogging path to a walker who turned out to be native russian and didn't understand english well. Apparently, when she turned around and was startled, she thought I had said "get left" and she ran directly in front of me and I ran right into her. Either way can be a potential hazard. I find a bicycle bell to work much better as everyone knows what it is and they just keeping going straight, hardly ever look around. It may not look "cool" but it is much safer.

Frank

--------------
Frank,
An original Ironman and the Inventor of PowerCranks
Last edited by: Frank Day: Apr 5, 05 12:48
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Re: "On your left" - is it so hard to say? [Tom Demerly] [ In reply to ]
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I use "on your left" the same way I use my horn when driving. If it saying it makes it safer, I do. I use it cycling, skiing and even running. I do think it can be startling, but usually the situation warrants it and I try to make allowance for the fact that yelling it out may cause the person to veer left. I also like it when people use it on me. Quite often, I've spaced a little and it's a gentle reminder that I should keep my slow-ass self to the right.
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Re: "On your left" - is it so hard to say? [Striver] [ In reply to ]
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my daughter had one of those horns you squeeze on her kiddie bike that kinda sounds like a goose. i think we should all get one of those bad boys mounted on our bars and start squeezin about 100 yards away.

seriously. i do try to let anyone know when i'm coming up behind them, whether i'm on a bike or running. just this passed week i was out of town and went for a very early run. i got a bit distracted looking at the new scenery and didn't let a speed-walker know i was coming up behind her. when i got about a yard from her, she turned and saw me and it totally freaked her out. i felt bad and apologized. she was embarrassed but ok.


________

70.3 is the cousin to OD........ Ironman has no relatives! -Simon Lessing


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Re: "On your left" - is it so hard to say? [Striver] [ In reply to ]
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I have ridden in and around NYC for many years and I have found, like many posters on this thread, that "on your left" results in more danger than safety. Whenever possible, I will give the slower rider a wide berth and usually rapidly flick the downshift lever of my Campy set-up a dozen times. The resulting noise is usually loud enough to make the rider aware that something is behind them without causing them to freak out or attempt to look around and swerve off line.

If I can't pass while giving a wide berth, I will usually back off and wait until I can. It may throw off my cadence, rythm, etc., but not as bad a a collision.

I proudly DO NOT post my workouts on Facebook!!!
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