All I know is it is a lie. A tublar made 6 or 7 years ago has got to be a half a gram heavier then one made today. As the Tufo posts prove that much wieght can cost you at least 6 or 7 miles an hour.

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customerjon @gmail.com is where information happens.

in very simple language, tubulars or clinchers, when you age them, the rubber hardens.

the result: longer wear, possibly some tiny percentage of lower rolling resistance (and we are talking tiny) as the rubber gets less 'sticky'.

but the trade-off: less grip or traction. watch those corners!!

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Where would you want to swim ?

from the rec.bicycles.tech FAQ (which everyone should read):

> What advantage is there in aging tubulars?

None! The aging concept arose from the same source as the "steel
frames need to be replaced because they get soft with age" concept.
Both were intended to improve sales during the off (winter) season by
bike shops with too much inventory on their shelves. Tires oxidize,
outgas, and polymerize from ultraviolet light. The concept of a tire
manufacturer making a tire that cannot be used until ripened for six
months from the date of purchase is ridiculous. Tires can be made to
any specification at the factory. Tires are most flexible and durable
when they are new. They don't improve with time and exposure to heat,
light, and oxygen or ozone.

"Over-aged" tubular tires, have crumbling hard brown latex on their
sidewalls that exposes separating cords directly to weather and wear
and they have treads crack when flexed. Considering that this is a
continuous process, it is hard to explain where, in the time from
manufacture to the crumbly condition, the optimum age lies. The claim
that tires are lighter after aging is true. Their elastomers have
evaporated making the tire brittle and weak.

Purchasing tubular tires in advance to age them is unwise, although if
there is a supply problem, tubular tires bought in advance should be
sealed tightly in airtight bags and kept in the dark, optimally in a
freezer. For best results, use new tires because aged tires are only
as good as how little they have aged.

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"Go yell at an M&M"

That means LA's lead mechanic is full of dogie doo? He was shown on the show in his cellar with tons of aging tubulars all marked with the "born on" date, in large stacks, tied together. According his statement, Discovery will be using tubulars in this years TDF that were made 6-7 years ago.

So whats up? Why would he say something like that and show the world if it was not true? I really have no idea at all about this whole thing.

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Paul

Did I misunderstood Discovery's chief mechanic? I could have sworn he said he had aged those 'tooboolurs' (as pronounced by Devriese) as much as 6 years before allowing them to be glued on to race wheels? If that is what he said, I have a hard time believing it as I just do not see Lance (or any others from Disco) riding 6 year old tires even if it was stored in basement that rarely sees temps above 70 degrees!

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I think we've just uncovered the real reson why Ulrich will win.

A lot of people get wierd stuff in thier heads,Have you ever seen the photos of riders in early TDF smoking? The smoking Cleared the lungs! Maybe fifty years ago ageing tires had a purpose.

My doctor has a photo from a very early TDF. Its a photo at a "break" in the race and they are all drinking BEER!! It gives you "energy"!! : )

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Paul

The other thing that happens to rubber is increasing cross-linking of the chain molecules, which I think is the main cause of stiffening/aging over time, since the molecules have less freedom to move. However, the predominant cause of this is sunlight/free radicals, which they'll never see in a darkened cellar. There probably will be a few interstellar sub-atomic particles causing very small amounts of cross-linking, but I agree that this whole aging thing is baloney. Like you say, all these things can be controlled much better during manufacture anyway. That the Discovery team mechanic apparently believes in aging just shows the powers of tradition and superstition.

I was also supprised of some things said,Or left out There was talk of former champions of the TDF but no mention of Greg Lemond,i understand the bad blood between Greg and Lance but Lances life was made better by Greg being there before.

no no no. This is another clever ruse to create doubt, fear, and loathing in the minds of Jan et al.

Remember the A'lpe Du Huez TT clipons that were deemed to be ever so essential on the Lance Chronicles last year. Who used 'em in the mountain TT?

Ullrich: check, Basso: check, Armstrong: NOT ...

It's all misinformation ... ;)

rtm

Argument from authority doesn't cut it.

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"Go yell at an M&M"

I can't see how aging them would decrease rolling resistance. Seems as though older tubulars would lose grip as the rubber hardens.

Increased grip = Increased rolling resistance

I was told by an old-timer that in years past when tires lacked the current rubber technology they would age their tires to harden the rubber and make them less prone to flats. BTW, he no longer ages his tires.

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Rolling resistance is the energy lost due to flexing of the tire (tread and casing) to conform to the road surface, not related to the tread/road interface.

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"Go yell at an M&M"

Well I guess technically speaking, I age 'tooboolurs' since I do not train on my race wheels which means the race wheels are resting in the dual wheelbag aging. <:^D

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Picture this:

You're a grizzled old Belgian bike mechanic. A group of niave young Americans show up at your shop with video cameras and ask a bunch of stupid questions about Lance Armstrong.

You have a cellar full of left over tubulars from season's past. What would you do in this situation?

The Discovery Channel probably left the shots they got of the tanks holding the "custom special air" on the cutting room floor to keep the show under one hour.

This segment also struck me as questionable in a show supposedly focused on science. IIR, the mechanic claimed that the glue used in making the tire became softer over time, leading to a more supple tire with lower rolling resistance. I really have no personal knowledge one way or the other as to whether this is true, but if rubber hardens with age, I would think this would increase rolling resistance, not decrease it, as it would make the tire stiffer.

But all this aside, why include this segment at all? If the show was supposed to be about the science of lance then there should have been some explanation of the chemical changes that lead to lower rolling resistance in aged tires. No such angle was taken, likely for obvious reasons--probably no such scientific knowledge exists. This and a number of other segments did demonstrate a very methodical and organized approach to the TDF. It may be a waste of time, but it is organized and methodical. Being organized and methodical is not the same as being scientific. Project management is not the same as science.

They had this same sgment on Fit TVs "Chasing Lance" series but I think Discovery edited the segment because when I saw it on Fit TV, at the point where Devriese was showing the stack tires for Lance, he made a comment to the effect that when that small stack of tires was done, so was Lance! (grin)

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You missed one major issue. You're discussing "Tubulars" The mehanic on Discovery was clearly saying "tublrs"...A completely different discussion.

~Matt

Actually, I think Devriese pronounced it 'tooboolurs' but who are we to worry about how a guy who used to wrench for Eddy Mercx (not too mention speaks 3 langauges) pronounces it in English? <:^D

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Back in the day, I thought the tires were being aged to harden the rubber to prevent glass cuts. The theory is that the really good ones , had the rubber glued and not vulcanized on so the rubber compounds were softer and not cured like the heat processed tires. I know they did harden with time on the rubber part. Same logic why you raced cotton tires in the wet and silks in the dry. and never the reds in the rain. cause that is what the old guys said to do. Whatevers. G

I know back in the day we did it to harden the rubber a little for flats. Vittoria, like their clinchers get cuts easy and this did help. I know 2-3yrs was the case, but not 6. Stored properly perhaps 2-6 years makes no difference. I have some from the end of the eighties in the attic and they are so dry you can rip the rim strip trying to mount them. They still function fine, but I would never take them more than a block from home.