Bring your dog, your pepper spray, your gun and your cell phone? most of all be aware of your surroundings- I can sneak up on anyone with an ipod-it's amazing. I vary my routes every day, every week. My dog is the biggest deterrant I think and I don't run plugged in. This case has bothered me and as it was unfolding I started running past a man walking the opposite direction as me in the dark early a.m. and he wears dark clothing which is a huge flag-so I ran that particular route backwards instead and don't pass him. He speaks to me too and I speak back confidently "Good Morning" so as not to shrink away and I kick it up a notch for another quarter mile. It freaked me out enough for me to turn around and look behind me. For yrs now I have run early ams and not crossed anyone's path

what Snap! said...

Be the wolf instead of the lamb, arm yourself and your daughters the same way. You do it long enough it will become ingrained.

Leave the earphones for the track or treadmill, enroll in a self-defense class. tell somebody your route, bring a phone, have something available to defend yourself or at least allow you to get away and RUN (pepper spray, tazer, dog) know your surroundings and ways to get to get off trail and to help if you had to. "if something were to happen right now what would I do???" is something that you need to think about.

After I heard about this. It added one more thing to the list of things my youngest (3 y/o girl) will have to do whether she agrees or not - mandatory self-defense. even though she is handling herself quite well with 3 older bros

I had a similar thought when the crazy professor when on the shooting rampage... yah take cover but as soon as her gun jammed why in the hell didn't someone tackle her and pummel her with her own gun??? what did they all do instead..tried to hold the door closed... lambs to the slaughter

If you've got a dog (and assuming it isn't a teacup yorkie or anything of that ilk), take it running with you. If you don't have a dog, you might consider getting one. It doesn't need to be a doberman or a rottweiler or anything like that - just a medium sized dog that likes you more than it likes strangers. :p


On a somewhat related note, I typically run alone in the trails and generally either smile and nod, or say "good morning/evening" as I encounter others in the trails. If it's a single woman, should I just ignore her for her own comfort?

---

<If you're gonna be dumb, you gotta be tough>
Get Fitter!
Proud member of the Smartasscrew, MONSTER CLUB
Get your FIX today?

Yes, you're a totally creepy guy ;-)

---

maybe she's born with it, maybe it's chlorine
If you're injured and need some sympathy, PM me and I'm very happy to write back.
disclaimer: PhD not MD

Maybe it's the panel van, puppy and bag of candy?

---

<If you're gonna be dumb, you gotta be tough>
Get Fitter!
Proud member of the Smartasscrew, MONSTER CLUB
Get your FIX today?

Train in martial arts until you can kill a man with your bare hands.

I suggest a simple study. Find out somewhere how many women are killed in this way each year. Then find out how many people are killed by freak accidents (like snake bite, falls, tree limbs falling...).
If you find out that your odds of dying in this way are like lightning striking, perhaps you will feel free to run on your own again.

I run by myself quite a bit as well. One thing you can do is check the sex offender registry database in your area. There should be one online, we have it here in WA. I found out about a guy down the road who was convicted of molesting a 14 year old boy and another one in a town 5 miles away that was convicted of First degree rape back in 1979 and is listed as non-compliant. No photo but did mention ethnicity and tattoos so I am aware. I'm also going to be contacting my local police stations to find out how I can get any alerts to attacks on local trails. I have no idea of anyone is being jumped or even eaten by a cougar (of the animal variety, Khai.)

Hearing about Chelsea is the first time I ever considered getting a gun, and I hate guns. Then I realized that in close contact situations it wouldn't be any help. I really wanted to take Krav Maga but I just don't have time to commit to it. I'm on a notification list for a local self defence class that lasts for a week after work. They still haven't scheduled it but I will sign up when it is. Aside from knowing how to physically defend myself, awareness is key, so no headphones for most runs. If I do wear headphones it is when I'm on a very populated urban trail, never in the woods.

It is really upsetting to hear about Chelsea. As I spend more time on the trails by myself I'm realizing how vulnerable I am.

---

----------------------------------------------------------------------
Jen

"In order to keep a true perspective on one's importance, everyone should have a dog that worships him and a cat that will ignore him." - Dereke Bruce

Are you comfortable giving that same advice to your wife, sister or mother?

---

----------------------------------------------------------------------
Jen

"In order to keep a true perspective on one's importance, everyone should have a dog that worships him and a cat that will ignore him." - Dereke Bruce

Of course. Why would you suggest otherwise?


This crap happens, but it's important to keep in perspective exactly how likely it is. Do you fear other things as much that are statistically more likely to happen?
I'm not suggesting anyone ignore the threat. Just that they arm themselves with information and assess the facts intellectually to help combat fear.

And while we're at it, I would like to encourage you to protect your life from greater threats like drunk drivers, cancer, domestic violence...

You are quite glib about this. A guy running on his own is less of a target than a woman. Fact.

Not all rapists kill their victims so while we are more likely to die from one of the causes you list, there is still a threat to our safety. We can only get stats on reported rapes, and not every woman will report it for various reasons. No one on this thread is saying we should stop running trails, just be vigilent and use this as a reminder that we can't be complacent. There was another attack on this trail in Jan. and they think it was the same guy. Nice suburban trail. It wasn't covered in the media, otherwise its possible Chelsea would have chosen another place to run that day. It happens, we shouldn't pretend otherwise and shouldn't be telling women to look at this from a stistical perspective because they can easily become a stastic.

---

----------------------------------------------------------------------
Jen

"In order to keep a true perspective on one's importance, everyone should have a dog that worships him and a cat that will ignore him." - Dereke Bruce

While I think it's a good idea to take your dog with you, for safety and because they probably love to run, I always think about the woman who was killed by a homeless man while she was hiking with her dog. It happened about 5 years ago in North Carolina. So, not always a sure thing.

Agreed - definitely not a sure thing. But a dog is better than no dog, just as that woman could easily have been killed if she had had another person (male or female) with her. You can never have a sure thing - but you can stack the deck...

---

<If you're gonna be dumb, you gotta be tough>
Get Fitter!
Proud member of the Smartasscrew, MONSTER CLUB
Get your FIX today?

yes, of course, we learned something. That there are fucking pedophiles in USA and government does nothing except release and relocate them near where kids live.

it's important to keep in perspective exactly how likely it is.

Are you aware that 1 in 6 women will be sexually assaulted in their lifetime? How's that for keeping it in perspective?

Yep, I don't go for a run anywhere without 80 pounds of don't-fuck-with-me black Lab either tethered to me, or within a few yards on the trail. I'm actually more afraid of getting attacked by a cougar than a human on our trails here. Since I got Keene, I have never felt alone, wierded out or threatened by a human on even in the most remote trails.

Funny thing is, the dog is the biggest lover baby / goofball on the planet, (but your average assaulter would never know, all they see is big black dog).

Jen, I promise you that you read in that glibness you think was there. (except in my first sentence of my first post that could have been in pink...but even that wasn't exactly pinkness since I spent over a decade practicing Martial Arts and believe it's valuable for everyone).

The fact of the matter is that regardless of the fact that one well-covered event just happened...the odds of it happening to you haven't changed and aren't high enough that you should now feel robbed of your sense of security. There is absolutely NOTHING glib about that. It's impowering (I hope).
Actually your accusation toward me and my motives is quite insulting. Be rational!

and by far the majority of the time it is by someone that they know or are impaired at the time of the assault. The odds of being sexually assaulted by a complete stranger in a public area are much more remote.

I don't think he is being glib but trying to keep things in perspective. By all means, do things to protect yourself and avoid being a victim. Dogs are great, training partners are better. At the same time, don't live in fear and avoid life because of something that has similar odds to being hit by lightning.

I dunno if this will reply back to the intended (jyeager). Dude I get your drift. I hear ya loud and clear. As women, we need to be aware and not only aware, but have a defense mechanism/training in effect period!

Chelsea was bad, really bad. Now we are finding out another teen has been found Amber Dubois in a shallow grave on a reservation. This is more than likely connected to the same guy even tho their deaths were about
9 mos or more apart.

As women, we definitely need to be proactive in our safety. Take self defense classes, don't be nice, listen to your gut when all else fails (tho this should be the 1st thing period!), and be aware.

There was a thread not too long ago where things like situational awareness, projection of confidence, habits and patterns, etc were discussed at some length. Not to say that "the solution has been posted before" - just more pieces to the puzzle.

Like any good security protocol (or Ogre), there are many layers involved.

---

<If you're gonna be dumb, you gotta be tough>
Get Fitter!
Proud member of the Smartasscrew, MONSTER CLUB
Get your FIX today?

Organize running clubs, when you go as a group, KNOW who the others are in case someone separates. I would think Mace or dog repellant is a good basic item to have on hand.

I know I'm late to this thread and I'm not sure how much I can contribute. That said, I do have a daughter and while she's not out trail running yet (kind of hard to do in diapers), I have really been struggling with this story. I live in the general area where the body was found and have ridden Lake Hodges trails on my mountain bike extensively. I'm pretty sure I know the exact spot where Chelsea was found. I still get chills thinking about it. As a parent and a husband, it outrages and enfuriates me that I have to worry about stuff like this. It's topped off with a great deal of fear. It's one thing to lose a loved one to an accident or something uncontrollable. This is something different; something heinous that I can't even begin to comprehend.

In any event, one of the things mentioned here was to check the sexual offender registry. While I agree it's a good idea, it wouldn't have made a difference in this particular case. The offender was staying with his parents, 60 or so miles from his own residence where he is registered. The point is the system is not fool proof and I have to imagine "exceptions" like this are more common that we'd like to think. I spoke with an acquaintence in law enforcement and was told that the common belief is that less than half of the registered sex offenders actually live where they're registered. It's frustrating and scary, especially as a parent because there's not much we can do other than continuing to be vigilant in every possible way. The point isn't to skip the registry -- it's still an important resource -- it's that we shouldn't be lulled into the belief the information it provides is complete and perfect.

I also know from reports on the offender's previous attack, he did so from surprise and from behind. Doing so would mitigate the use of most any kind of weapon, even on potentially larger victims (including men). In other words, there would have been no chance to use pepper spray, a knife, or a gun. It's a huge fallacy to believe that we'll see everything coming toward us from the front and be able to offer up some kind of defense. While I could make an argument to carry a weapon (or six) on a run, I'm not sure it's the end-all, be-all solution some people believe it is. Mase (or any other weapon) doesn't do you any good if you don't get a chance to use it.

I second the notion of martial arts or self-defense training. There's no harm in acquiring those skills and in a perfect world we'd never have to use them. That said, it's like the old scout motto says - be prepared. Of course the companionship of other runners and / or a dog is a big plus and I believe it would serve as a deterent for all but the sickest of these predators. Unfortunately it's not always practical.

At the end of the day, we need to trust our instincts. More often than not we get a feeling when something isn't quite right - we need to listen to that. Awareness is never a bad thing.
I won't get into the debate on how the system let us down or what could have been done to ensure a different, better outcome. It's a fruitless effort that leads to more frustration and anger ... and I have enough of both already. Instead, I'm working toward learning from this tragedy and trying to figure out what I can do for those I love to make things safer for them. I want my daughter to be able to go for a run in the canyons behind our house without having to live in fear; I want the same for my wife -- they shouldn't be relegated to the treadmill out of fear. At the end of the day, it's the least I can do for them.

While the creep in this case is a deplorable monster (assuming the accusations against him prove true, of course), I still hold out hope for humanity as a whole and believe that the vast majority of people are indeed good. It sucks that guys like this are out there trying to prove me wrong.

Stay safe out there.

Brian

Another attack, this time she got away: http://www.kcra.com/...22828054/detail.html She fought hard and took advantage of an opening. Good for her!

Jogger Jumps Off Cliff To Flee Attacker

MALIBU, Calif. -- Authorities said a man tried to sexually assault a Malibu jogger who escaped by jumping off a cliff and sliding about 100 feet down a steep hillside.

Los Angeles County sheriff's Sgt. Derek Sabatini said the woman was taken to a hospital Friday with cuts and bruises from the fall.

She told deputies she had finished a run at about noon at Point Dume State Park and was standing at the edge of a cliff when she was grabbed from behind. She said she and the man struggled for several minutes before she was able to break away. That's when the woman ran and jumped off the cliff.

Deputies said the suspect then escaped in the woman's Toyota Land Cruiser.

A search for the suspect is underway.

---

----------------------------------------------------------------------
Jen

"In order to keep a true perspective on one's importance, everyone should have a dog that worships him and a cat that will ignore him." - Dereke Bruce

We've had an incident here in the Seattle area now. A woman was working on trail repair Saturday morning and a guy dressed as a runner chatted with her for a few minutes. When she turned to go back to work he attacked her. She fought and got away. Apparently he had a stun gun on him but I don't know if he used it. He hasn't been caught.

A couple weeks back a transient broke into a guy's house and the guy killed him with a shotgun. Apparently there is a known transient camp nearby and is less than a mile off of a popular trail that I run on by myself quite a bit. No more.

---

----------------------------------------------------------------------
Jen

"In order to keep a true perspective on one's importance, everyone should have a dog that worships him and a cat that will ignore him." - Dereke Bruce

Yikes -- I feel so comfortable running around my neighborhood, but this cr@p can happen anywhere, can't it? I do often run with my dog, and for some reason people are more afraid of black dogs than other-colored dogs. I used to NEVER go running without my pepper spray, and actually held it with my thumb near the trigger. (and no, I never accidentally sprayed myself or a friend with it! :-) ) I try to always be aware of my surroundings, do NOT use an IPOD, and I think I'll start carrying pepper spray again. I used to hear about women running alone, in the dark, with IPODs, at Memorial Park in Houston, which has lots of large bushes and trees. And they're surprised when they get attacked??? That's just plain STUPID!

---

The road goes on forever and the party never ends