Kyra, I'm not stereotyping, but I have been responding to comments by Edbikebabe and AP. My comments are consistent with the shift in subject matter. We have been discussing people who have never seen healthy behaviors modeled and don't know what "fructose" in HCFS means. This was not a jump I made.

EBB: "Maybe they had no healthy role models. Maybe it's not just being lazy - they might actually not have the skill set required to be healthy. Obviously they have to make the choices to lose weight, but if it is overwhelming or cost prohibitive or going against the "norm" it might seem to be an insurmountable goal."

AP: "There are a lot of people who have never seen people in their day to day lives eat well, exercise, take care of their health. I work with ~600 people, and I always try to be accessible and non-intimidating about the subject. I do get folks approaching me with questions.... all sorts of questions... "I want to start riding my bike to work, like you and so-and-so, how do I find a good bike?" and "what does 'fructose' or 'HFCS' mean?"

I know not all overweight people are poor, but there are a disproportionately high number of uneducated, poor obese people.

http://frac.org/...lnerable-to-obesity/
http://www.cdc.gov/...igher_education.html
http://www.cdc.gov/.../databriefs/db50.htm

Physiologically, eating less and moving more is the answer. So why doesn't it happen? Why isn't it that easy? Because psychologically and sociologically it is not that simple. We could argue all day about whether or not it should be that simple, but the reality is it just isn't.

I think this issue a lot- I work out hard and I eat healthfully and it drives me absolutely crazy to see people seem to completely neglect and destroy their bodies, then expect someone else to foot the bill.

I started to change my thinking a bit in grad school when we reviewed the ACE (Adverse Childhood Experiences) study. This was a fairly groundbreaking study that began when a researcher/provider at Kaiser Permanente began noticing a strong relationship between childhood abuse (especially sexual) and obesity in women. In particular, he noticed that as soon as these women began to lose some weight they became extremely uncomfortable and essentially sabotaged their weight loss programs. The subconscious need to feel hidden or cloaked as a result of having been abused manifested as significant and rapid weight gain.

I have to remind myself (and my sisters, who are teeny little wisps of people and tend to be a bit judgmental) that there truly are very complicated reasons for weight gain. I think that promoting exercise and healthy diets are critical for weight and health management, but I also think that if we don't address the underlying mental health issues, not to mention the endemic abuse, neglect, poverty, and lack of access to services, then we're really not going to make much progress.

I'm putting a link to the original ACE article below. There have been many subsequent related studies.



http://www.ajpmonline.org/...8/fulltext#section19


As far as Lululemon, I’m sort of ambivalent. I don’t really like the brand image these days and it’s too cold where I live to run in anything but Sugoi sub-zero tights, but my favorite articles from LLL are a cami-style sportsbra that has replaced my hated underwires, and their lace thongs. These are the most comfortable undies I’ve every worn. Since no one ever sees the labels I don’t feel too much cognitive dissonance :-)


--L

Being open and receptive to the opportunity to help is a responsibility I think we all share. As human beings. It is our responsibility to be opportunistic to help when help is wanted, needed, and most of all gratefully appreciated.

Many people in poor health have no idea how to fix it, or that they even have poor health. But once they are receptive to change, when they *know* they have to change, and are ready to do so, it is for the greater good if the community supports them in whatever manner practical.

If someone asks for help, why would you not offer what you reasonably could? If someone was having a heart attack and stopped breathing//having a pulse, would you not start CPR? Just because that unhealthy person hasn't yet had that heart attack doesn't negate the need for help when it is asked for...

Most people that want true change just want support and encouragement. And that costs NOTHING.

AP

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"How bad could it be?" - SimpleS

I'd like to know who out of you guys havent struggled with being significantly overweight and would like to give me, who is, unfair judgements when they clearly have not walked in my shoes.

I've lost 28-45 lbs about 8 times, have bulimic years, have schizophrenia, have Aspergers, gave up smoking 7.5 years ago, have a mum and sister who smoke, a mother who reached 14 stone or nearly 220lbs 100kg well roughly anyway.
Am on weight gaining meds for life, have done yoga teacher training, skied for a few seasons, worked as a field labourer, ran 3 half marathons and several shorter races etc etc and now am training multi sport.
I'm 25 lbs overweight and not happy about it. I've been this weight for 7 years now apart from a severe restricting diet where I was normal weight for a few days.
This story of the guy losing 250 lbs is inspiring.
I hate being this weight.
I'm not grotesquely out of proportion but spend my life feeling like a huge hideous pig monster who doesn't even look human shaped.
Sorry - self righteous rant

Yes. Thank you for that link. Great post.

"Most people that want true change just want support and encouragement. And that costs NOTHING."

Yes, very true.

I have also found that giving support and encouragement is very rewarding and motivating for the giver. I have a couple of friends right now really working on weight loss--women who have been obese most of their childhood and all of their adult lives--and it feels great to be able to help them in whatever way I can. Being with someone when they finish their first 5k and are amazed and thrilled with their accomplishment has felt better to me than any of my own 5k races.

I am so glad you posted this. It is anything but self-righteous :)

It is honest and is a very good window into the challenges that some face. Thank you for being willing to share it with the group and be a part of this discussion.

  

I am so glad you posted this. It is anything but self-righteous :)


I felt quite righteous posting it anyway...
I spend my time contrary to how I sounded, very underwhelmed with myself. Got to 16 miles... Was a marathon hopeful... But may not be built for running (slightly knock kneed).
My aim is a 70.3 in 2015 or even 2016. I'll be 40/41...
I've already managed, in just a few weeks of multisport, to become a faster runner than I ever was and I'm probably fitter than I've been since my 20's. I've been able to run a bit longer, and normalised for longer but at much lower speeds and I physically couldn't go even one 10mm before.
Now hopeful for a sub-30 5k!

Update: Chip Wilson has resigned from Lululemon's board of directors

I think, tho, that people's thighs touching have NOTHING to do with if you're obese/overweight, as implied by lululemon.
The question isn't that they don't want to cater to fat people, it's that his statement encourages these unrealisitic female body images of the super model who is grossly underweight and whose thighs do not touch... and who definitely would not be doing sports in their clothing. It isn't natural for a female's thights not to touch if she is a healthy weight and doesn't have a deformity that makes her legs bow.

My thighs touch, and I was just told by the doctor that I need to put on a couple pounds because my BMI is on the lowest end of normal nearly underweight. Why do my thighs touch? Because I am a runner, biker, formal hockey player, not because I am in any way shape or form overweight.

Just wanted to let you know, Push, I cheered every time I read your posts.

Especially to the angry, irrational rants from a certain poster.

Bravo.

I think we've established that, according to recent research (and the REAL research, not the sensationalist journalism that misquotes it) that metabolically healthy is a condition that is not necessarily dictated by BMI.

We also know that BMI, as a general tool, is helpful, but on the individual level, it is often grossly wrong. (N=1; In my collegiate swimming days I was on the border between "overweight" and "normal" BMI with a 16% body fat composition, and rippling, rippling muscle).

EVEN IF THIS RESEARCH IS WRONG (which I don't think it is, but go with me here), and even if some of the worst accusations that have been made here are true (all obese people are unhealthy, and all obese people stuff their faces with big macs, and all obese people are lazy and unmotivated). You know what? Fat-shaming doesn't work. Fat shaming doesn't make people "Turn healthy".
http://www.plosone.org/article/info:doi/10.1371/journal.pone.0070048


So, to the fat-shaming on here- just stop. JUST STOP. You don't have to "apologize" for anyone, or "make excuses" but your mere attitude is making the problem worse. Just STOP. If you don't want to be nice to people because you deem them unhealthy, then just don't say or do anything at all.


What if EVERYONE around you constantly ridiculed you because you weren't good at math. Would you suddenly want to become good at math? Probably not.


There are plenty of thin, athletic people who are assholes. And there are plenty of overweight people who are wonderful, kind people. (and plenty of overweight assholes too). The point is, weight shouldn't devalue a person.


Peace, I'm out.

I know, I'm such an irrational meany. Heaven forbid anyone have a strong opinion that differs from yours.
Oh and her name is Elesa.
May PEACE be with YOU & Happy Holidays!!!

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"Though she be but little, she is fierce" ~Shakespeare | Powered by HD Coaching | 2014 Wattie Ink Triathlon Team | Facebook | Instagram | Twitter

Thanks for your kind words and for another great post :)

Will you just give it a rest already? It's not about you.

AP

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"How bad could it be?" - SimpleS

And it's also not about opinions. It's about the science of health (and science should be devoid of 'opinions') and treating human beings with kindness. Even if they're wearing Lulu- I joke. :)

Thank you

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"How bad could it be?" - SimpleS

I am a man. I have never bought lululemon products. I am 6' and weigh 170 at about 7% body fat.
My thighs rub. My shorts pill. It's my body's fault.

I've never even heard of "un-pillable" shorts. Why would I be surprised that lululemon doesn't make them?
Chip Wilson sorely underestimated the number of overly sensitive and vindictive people in this world.

FFS. Why is it being "overly-sensitive and vindictive." Why isn't it just making a decision about where I want to spend my money? The product sucks (17% recall and multiple fails this year) and the CEO tries to blame that on customers. Tell me, SH, what do you consider when making purchases?

I'm never going to buy lululemon. You aren't either. My thighs rub and I'm not a woman. You want a better product. There is no over sensitivity or vindictiveness in that.

However, organizing groups that seek to distort what this man said in an effort to ruin Chip's and lululemon's reputation and business -- that's over sensitivity and vindictiveness. Over sensitive because, yes, you have to have some serious body/mind/spirit issues to get from point a, what this man really said, to point b, what the writer of that blog was claiming. And vindictive because ,yes, you gotta have a mean streak to try and get someone canned just because your brain is good at the mental gymnastics involved in always perceiving a slight.

("You" and "your" is generic here. I'm talking about the people that drummed all this up.)

thank you. thank you. thank you. thank you.

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"Though she be but little, she is fierce" ~Shakespeare | Powered by HD Coaching | 2014 Wattie Ink Triathlon Team | Facebook | Instagram | Twitter

Translation:

"It doesn't bother/affect me, so obviously everyone reacting differently than me is over sensitive."

This thread examined several statements made by Chip Wilson, in attempt to assess his overall character, as well as several business practices Lululemon has enacted over the years, and discussed the company, its mission, its target buyer, the quality of clothing, as well as what it's like to shop at the stores. Many pros and cons were presented and discussed, (well, before the fat-shaming and health science discussion). Just like that "vindictive" blogger who went from point A to point B, you did as well, without reading the whole thread. You can worship the ground Chip walks on for all I care, but read the whole damn thread before you mansplain to us how "over sensitive" people are.

Why exactly are you posting here?

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clm
Nashville, TN
https://twitter.com/ironclm | http://ironclm.typepad.com

Lululemon announced their quarterly results and said their annual forecast was being adjusted downward. They attributed this in part to the debacle with the see-through yoga tights, and also to the PR debacle with Wilson's comments about the clothing not being designed for certain size women. In fact, the CEO Christine Day is being replaced (was announced in June), and Chip Wilson is stepping down as chairman (just announced).

So perhaps they got the message that you shouldn't really alienate your customers?

BrokenSpoke

My thighs rub?

 

LOL

Mens are welcome too :-)

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maybe she's born with it, maybe it's chlorine
If you're injured and need some sympathy, PM me and I'm very happy to write back.
disclaimer: PhD not MD