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A house divided - the lingering effects of Hillary's defeat
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Today my wife and I had our monthly argument over the results of the Democratic primaries (it tends to arise when she experiences some form of sexism at work, which is quite frequently, unfortunately). She was a fervent Hillary supporter, and I preferred Obama for various reasons - none of which included the fact that he has a penis, or that she does not. In spite of the undeniable strategic and organizational errors Hillary's campaign made - which would undeniably handicap any presidential candidate's chances, male or female - her argument always returns to Sexism. There's no question that it came into play to some extent (and she was not shy about using her gender to her advantage at times), but it makes me wonder how prevalent that line of reasoning is among intelligent women - that she would have won, had it not been for the sexist society that refused to allow her passage.

Her opponent was an inexperienced black man with ties to an arguably racist church, domestic terrorists and a uber-liberal voting record. Are we to believe that society places femininity above all of these in terms of least-desirable traits in a presidential candidate, as the "sexism alone" charge would lead us to believe? Or did one candidate simply run a brilliant campaign while the other made one costly mistake after the next, political baggage notwithstanding?

I found this article to be the most compelling and conclusive analysis of why, ultimately, Hillary Clinton will not be our next president:


The Five Mistakes Clinton Made

By Karen Tumulty

For all her talk about "full speed on to the White House," there was an unmistakably elegiac tone to Hillary Clinton's primary-night speech in Indianapolis. And if one needed further confirmation that the undaunted, never-say-die Clintons realize their bid might be at an end, all it took was a look at the wistful faces of the husband and the daughter who stood behind the candidate as she talked of all the people she has met in a journey "that has been a blessing for me."

It was also a journey she had begun with what appeared to be insurmountable advantages, which evaporated one by one as the campaign dragged on far longer than anyone could have anticipated. She made at least five big mistakes, each of which compounded the others:

1. She misjudged the mood

That was probably her biggest blunder. In a cycle that has been all about change, Clinton chose an incumbent's strategy, running on experience, preparedness, inevitability — and the power of the strongest brand name in Democratic politics. It made sense, given who she is and the additional doubts that some voters might have about making a woman Commander in Chief. But in putting her focus on positioning herself to win the general election in November, Clinton completely misread the mood of Democratic-primary voters, who were desperate to turn the page. "Being the consummate Washington insider is not where you want to be in a year when people want change," says Barack Obama's chief strategist, David Axelrod. Clinton's "initial strategic positioning was wrong and kind of played into our hands." But other miscalculations made it worse:

2. She didn't master the rules

Clinton picked people for her team primarily for their loyalty to her, instead of their mastery of the game. That became abundantly clear in a strategy session last year, according to two people who were there. As aides looked over the campaign calendar, chief strategist Mark Penn confidently predicted that an early win in California would put her over the top because she would pick up all the state's 370 delegates. It sounded smart, but as every high school civics student now knows, Penn was wrong: Democrats, unlike the Republicans, apportion their delegates according to vote totals, rather than allowing any state to award them winner-take-all. Sitting nearby, veteran Democratic insider Harold M. Ickes, who had helped write those rules, was horrified — and let Penn know it. "How can it possibly be," Ickes asked, "that the much vaunted chief strategist doesn't understand proportional allocation?" And yet the strategy remained the same, with the campaign making its bet on big-state victories. Even now, it can seem as if they don't get it. Both Bill and Hillary have noted plaintively that if Democrats had the same winner-take-all rules as Republicans, she'd be the nominee. Meanwhile, the Clinton campaign now acknowledges privately:

3. She underestimated the caucus states

While Clinton based her strategy on the big contests, she seemed to virtually overlook states like Minnesota, Nebraska and Kansas, which choose their delegates through caucuses. She had a reason: the Clintons decided, says an adviser, that "caucus states were not really their thing." Her core supporters — women, the elderly, those with blue-collar jobs — were less likely to be able to commit an evening of the week, as the process requires. But it was a little like unilateral disarmament in states worth 12% of the pledged delegates. Indeed, it was in the caucus states that Obama piled up his lead among pledged delegates. "For all the talent and the money they had over there," says Axelrod, "they — bewilderingly — seemed to have little understanding for the caucuses and how important they would become."

By the time Clinton's lieutenants realized the grave nature of their error, they lacked the resources to do anything about it — in part because:

4. She relied on old money

For a decade or more, the Clintons set the standard for political fund raising in the Democratic Party, and nearly all Bill's old donors had re-upped for Hillary's bid. Her 2006 Senate campaign had raised an astonishing $51.6 million against token opposition, in what everyone assumed was merely a dry run for a far bigger contest. But something had happened to fund raising that Team Clinton didn't fully grasp: the Internet. Though Clinton's totals from working the shrimp-cocktail circuit remained impressive by every historic measure, her donors were typically big-check writers. And once they had ponied up the $2,300 allowed by law, they were forbidden to give more. The once bottomless Clinton well was drying up.

Obama relied instead on a different model: the 800,000-plus people who had signed up on his website and could continue sending money his way $5, $10 and $50 at a time. (The campaign has raised more than $100 million online, better than half its total.) Meanwhile, the Clintons were forced to tap the $100 million — plus the fortune they had acquired since he left the White House — first for $5 million in January to make it to Super Tuesday and then $6.4 million to get her through Indiana and North Carolina. And that reflects one final mistake:

5. She never counted on a long haul

Clinton's strategy had been premised on delivering a knockout blow early. If she could win Iowa, she believed, the race would be over. Clinton spent lavishly there yet finished a disappointing third. What surprised the Obama forces was how long it took her campaign to retool. She fought him to a tie in the Feb. 5 Super Tuesday contests but didn't have any troops in place for the states that followed. Obama, on the other hand, was a train running hard on two or three tracks. Whatever the Chicago headquarters was unveiling to win immediate contests, it always had a separate operation setting up organizations in the states that were next. As far back as Feb. 21, Obama campaign manager David Plouffe was spotted in Raleigh, N.C. He told the News & Observer that the state's primary, then more than 10 weeks away, "could end up being very important in the nomination fight." At the time, the idea seemed laughable.

...http://www.time.com/...size]



I understand that race, sex, media favoritism and other factors play into the process, but our disagreement isn't over how she was treated by some; it is specifically over why she lost the race (or, even more specifically, why she didn't win it when she could/should have).

Is there any question that, had her campaign not made these errors, she would have sewn up the nomination early on, possibly by Super Tuesday? It seems her inability to respond to Obama's surge is what ultimately put the nail in her campaign's coffin (for example, moments like the "Shame on you, Barack Obama!" episode, and being caught in multiple lies about facing sniper fire in Bosnia would have never happened, had she not bungled the early states so badly).

Ignoring these fatal flaws and pointing instead to societal sexism - as real and problematic as it is - doesn't engender much sympathy, especially when it paints you as among those blind to the effects of sexism because you disagree.

So I'm curious; regardless of how you feel about Hillary as a person or a candidate, how does the above analysis square with your opinion of why she lost the nomination? Is sexism ultimately to blame for her defeat, regardless of how poorly she ran her campaign when it mattered most?

I'm trying to be more empathetic to mrs. sphere's argument, but it may require a bit of enlightenment on my part.



The devil made me do it the first time, second time I done it on my own - W
Last edited by: sphere: Jul 10, 08 8:11
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Post deleted by tri_2b_athlete [ In reply to ]
Re: A house divided - the lingering effects of Hillary's defeat [tri_2b_athlete] [ In reply to ]
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I'm an educated woman and I don't like Hillary. I think for me it's a simple lack of woman to woman respect. I left my husband for a lot less than the Monica L. thing...I never have been able to get past this. Have some self respect Hillary!
My mom has a great deal of self respect. She went through something similar to the Bill & Hillary deal (with less publicity, but still some) and is still with my dad. Do I look down on her over it? Absolutely not. In fact, she may have gained some respect from me by how she dealt with the situation and moved forward from it. Their relationship is much stronger than it was before the chaos that ensued.
I'm not American so I try not to pay too much attention to the politics (it's a bit overwhelming for me who is trying to follow the ongoing sillyness in Canada too), but I definitely try not to judge people based on things that go on in their personal lives - I realize that the lives of politicians is not exactly "personal", but everyone makes mistakes. They are human too. Let's remember, Bill did the distasteful things.


______________________________________
I know I'm promiscuous, but in a classy way
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Re: A house divided - the lingering effects of Hillary's defeat [cuds] [ In reply to ]
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You bring up an excellent point..."Bill did the distasteful things". I know this is waaaay off topic, but is this who we would want for a 1st man? After all, Cindy and Michelle are being scrutinized for things like cookie recipes.
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Re: A house divided - the lingering effects of Hillary's defeat [sphere] [ In reply to ]
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this is a tough one. i am an educated woman who supports obama, but also am in a male-dominated field and can understand the insidiousness of sexism in the workplace and the subtle ways in which it can undermine your position.

so i'm going to put it this way.

i have no doubt that those 5 mistakes were made, that's my personal feeling too - lots of tactical errors on her part. however, i also think there was a significant amount of sexism in her television coverage. let's just say that i can't stand chris mathews, among others. there were pundits on tv actually saying, "when guys hear hillary's voice, they just think nagging wife" as if this were a relevant political discussion, and then going ON about it too! this bothered me to the extreme and i'm sure it did not help her at all.

BUT, your question was which of these two factors, strategic/tactical errors or sexism, were the downfall of her campaign, i'd have to go politico-style and say both. i think she MAY have been able to overcome those blunders were she not a woman, and she MAY have been able to achieve the nomination had she not made those blunders. we'll never know, but i'm sure they both had something to do with it.
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Re: A house divided - the lingering effects of Hillary's defeat [lisazapato] [ In reply to ]
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Your opinion is probably the most common voiced by fair-minded people. Gender may have played a role as the campaign rolled on and it may have affected the race in ways difficult to quantify, but to the specific point:

Had she not made those mistakes, do you think she would have lost the nomination? And had those mistakes been made by Obama and not Hillary, do you think he would have won?

What conclusion do those answers lead you to about sexism being the determining factor in the outcome?

The devil made me do it the first time, second time I done it on my own - W
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Re: A house divided - the lingering effects of Hillary's defeat [sphere] [ In reply to ]
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typically vote republican but here is my opinion...

Hillary lost because her style of communicating came off harsh and shrill, she has trouble communicating empathy without making it look like an act...

Obama comes across as comfortable in his skin and puts you at ease...

dont believe it had anything to do with being a women, sexism, etc....she got beat by black man...
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Re: A house divided - the lingering effects of Hillary's defeat [sphere] [ In reply to ]
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Female Obama supporter here, married to a male, centrist (mostly) Republican... I have not read your entire post, but will. It was a tough call to pick Obama over Clinton when I voted in the primary.

I live in the Tulsa, Oklahoma area, bordering on what I call some pretty Bubba-type areas (not as in a "Bill Clinton bubba" but a "redneck, ignorant bubba"). One particularly misogynist bumper sticker I saw in my town of 14,000 was "Life's a bitch, don't vote for one" with Hillary's picture. I could NOT believe how someone could express such antipathy to ANYone so bluntly and openly. Unfortunately I think there are plenty of small-minded people out there that won't vote for a woman president, including surprisingly, my (male) optometrist!! (college educated but some weird VERY strong opinions that surprise me)

(AGAIN I am married to a smart, open-minded Republican... I am not anti-Republican, just anti-narrow-minded misyogynist thinking in general)

I hope Hillary gets a cabinet position where we (USA) can use her obvious skills, instead as VP.

YIKES I need to step away from the keyboard and finish getting ready for VINEMAN!
~Callie
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Re: A house divided - the lingering effects of Hillary's defeat [sphere] [ In reply to ]
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As this has no triathlon content, shouldn't it be in the Lavender Room?

BrokenSpoke
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Re: A house divided - the lingering effects of Hillary's defeat [brokenspoke] [ In reply to ]
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I don't think the womens is limited to triathlon talk specifically - especially if you look at old, and even current (kissing like a fish, lol), posts.


______________________________________
I know I'm promiscuous, but in a classy way
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