I think the second one now sys something did happen. It's very confusing.



What club were you in?

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I'd ditto this, but the D.A. had better have a lot better evidence than what we've seen in the media. I'm assuming he does.... He will look like a complete moron if not.

-Robert

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"How wonderful it is that nobody need wait a single moment before starting to improve the world." ~Anne Frank

I agree with that.

As of now, I'm sitting here wondering if he just doesn't want to tip his hand ... or if he's trying to "go all in" with a pair of 3's.

Pre-trial media is always unfairly reactionary.

If he indites someone quickly, ythen he wasn't patient/thorough enough and is looking to appease the low-income minorities..

If they take too long, then they're dragging their feet, and trying to appease the rich, white folks.

Either way ... the media knows everything and is never wrong. These things work out well for them (media).

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-- Every morning brings opportunity;
Each evening offers judgement. --

The only club that would have a stripper for Christmas, silly, Tiger Inn.

"I'd ditto this, but the D.A. had better have a lot better evidence than what we've seen in the media. I'm assuming he does.... He will look like a complete moron if not."

Think about the dynamics here though. You have a generally poor town with a generally wealthy college in it. There is a racial divide, and apparently some resentment from locals to the students regardless of race. Your jury pool, if it stays in Durham, is going to be these locals that perhaps could be sympathetic to the alleged victim because of this. I am not saying they would be, but if I were the defense I would be moving to get this trial out of Durham. Throw in the fact that the first 2 kids charged are from wealthy families, may be have some sense of entitlement (not saying they do but you can see how perhaps some would assume so since they both attended prep schools in NYC and one cost something like $22,000 a year) and at least one has a violent episode on his record (although you wonder if it would be admissible) and you have the makings of an OJ type verdict based on socio-economic class and race.

The one piece of evidence that bothers me the most is the nurse at Duke University Medical Center who did the rape kit, and who is trained and has experience in sexual assaults, and the physician who treated her, believed that the injuries they saw were consistent with sexual assault and that the victim's demeanor was also consistent. The question would when those injuries actually occurred.

She may have had intercourse, but with whom and under what conditions? The rape kit evidence is pretty soft, IMHO. But, you are right about the jury. No telling with juries....When O.J.'s jury was out I was telling everyone he was going to be found not guilty. The wrath of the community can be enormous and unfair.

-Robert

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"How wonderful it is that nobody need wait a single moment before starting to improve the world." ~Anne Frank

I'm seeing you in a whole new light Art.

How do you feel about Sally Frank?

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You really are trying to piss me off today, aren't you.

Because of her the Tiger Inn of the past is no more. I guess, given the above described "Christmas Party" tradition, one could argue that is no loss, but it still doesn't mean I have to like it.

What can I say? She had a case. I thought she would lose. Tiger Inn fought it all the way to the Supreme Court and lost 7-2, by my memory.

How is it you know this trivia?

How is it you know this trivia?

I was in the club right next door (Elm, although in my day it had merged with Dial and Cannon). I spent more than a few evenings at TI beating those guy at drinking games. ;)

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This whole thing most likely evolved over a fight about money. Booze, Naked women, and college age guys – of course It got out of hand, at least for two women who showed up to dance naked without any “security.” Although not the wisest choice, it is certainly understandably that this woman was not sober in this environment. Initially their instincts were correct and they wanted to leave but got talked into going back inside a second time. The situation again deteriorated and an argument ensued over who was getting paid for what. At that point it is very possible some kind of physical confrontation occurred. We will probably never know for sure what happened but it was most likely not rape.

Anger and resentment led first to the phone call about racial slurs, now admittedly made by the second dancer, and then, feeling enough retribution had not been enacted, the rape allegation. This surfaced later as some sense of sobriety returned to the complainant.

It is hard to see how this case can ever be won in court, but the momentum here might just propel it there anyway. One thing is certain, when this circus leaves town there will be a lot damaged parties on all sides left behind in Durham.

BTW, as soon as Sally Frank shaved off her mustache, TI’s entrance into the 21st Century was a foregone conclusion. I know it was close by but I can’t quite remember ever finding much more than a pulse over there at Elm. And Based on the advance chemical experimentation taking place, even that was questionable.

Trip down memory lane here.

I think Elm was out of business when I was there in the 70's, but there were rumors of bringing it back.

Might be mistaken on that.

I know it was close by but I can’t quite remember ever finding much more than a pulse over there at Elm. And Based on the advance chemical experimentation taking place, even that was questionable.

I think you would have found a different scene there in the early 90's.... and most of the chemical experimentation appears to have regressed to Olympia beer.

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It was closed from '73 to '78. Then in either 1989 or 1990 it merged with Dial and Cannon to form DEC. Sadly, DEC folded 2 years after I graduated.

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That sounds right. I graduated in 1977.

"The rape kit evidence is pretty soft, IMHO."

Maybe, but I would bet that it hits any potential jury pretty hard. Just from the brief description of the qualifications of the examiners, they seem competent and believable. Now, we haven't heard mention of them for a while, and when this story broke I fully believe those covering the story wanted to emphasize anything that made it seem that a rape occurred, giving them a great story. What subsequently happened though is this case has taken on a life of its own and there is no need now to create a by-line, if you know what I mean. I am not saying the media made this up, but it is interesting to watch how things are covered throughout the life of a story.

I think the prosecutor will slip the timeline around.

"A bunch of drunk guys with a stripper, is a bunch of drunk guys with a stripper ... the world over. "

That's clearly not the case. I've been in a group of drunk Officers with a stripper, I've been in a group of drunk Enlisted guys with a stripper, and I've been in a group of drunk college kids with a stripper and each group has a totally different dynamic. In a group of well off kids, who were raised in the suburbs, and have a lot to lose, the way they act is going to be different than a group without those attributes.

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Slowguy

(insert pithy phrase here...)

"This whole thing most likely evolved over a fight about money."

Now that could be the key to all of this, right here.

"I've been in a group of drunk Officers with a stripper, I've been in a group of drunk Enlisted guys with a stripper, and I've been in a group of drunk college kids with a stripper and each group has a totally different dynamic."

and I've been in a group of drunken but hungry homeless people with a stripper ....you've seen and been a lot. -:)

Yo dude, gotta' stay away from dem' strippas man. Dey is da nastah stuff....

I don't know, my life seems so empty by comparison to some of you guys....

-Robert

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"How wonderful it is that nobody need wait a single moment before starting to improve the world." ~Anne Frank

Yeah just pay for some nice juicy whores instead. At least you know what you're gonna get at the end of it and you're not going to be accused of rape.