If you are already training 20-25 hours/week, your margins for improvement are somewhat limited, I'm afraid. Possibly, you can shave 15 minutes off your PB, say 10 min. on the bike and 5 min. off swimming. You can improve a lot your age group placing, but that won't put you anywhere close to a pro

You should read about Andy Potts. After some years in the workforce he was really unhappy decided to turn professional and made the 2004 Olympic team.
Similar to you he started with no sponsors or no extra finances. He called people, USAT, etc... and found out what was required to qualify, and he went out and did it.

Not sure what the bike course was like, but obviously a better bike with disc, aero helmet etc will save you time. You'd need to drop a good 10 minutes off your bike time, which is possible. Super shoes will get you 1.14 which would be competitive. Your swim would need significant improvement and that can take time and require some ability. You don't need to be a 22min swimmer, but definitely under 28. I wouldn't say you're delusional. It will be tough, but you never know until you give it a crack!

No way just a shoe swap is going from a 1:17 to 1:14 That's 14s / mile.
2-6 s / mile Seems more likely. So best case 1:15:30 HM equivalent.

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Full-time Engineer / Part-time Pro Triathlete
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Agreed. Running economy doesn't equate to race times. Somebody already running a 1:17 isn't going to be 3 minutes faster. Elite marathon times improved by ~60-90s total. Some outliers -- some people respond better to the shoes & some don't. Maybe it's more like 30-45s in a half. I would go under 90s.

Desert Dude's post was great. & RT to the person who said don't just pick any coach but interview coaches/find someone with the experience you're looking for. Full disclosure I'm in a similar position where I'm right at the US pro standards. I had a nearly identical path into the sport. Came into triathlon from running. Started training a ton but have never swam/biked competitively. Went 33/2:29/1:19 in my 1st 70.3. It was a solid mark but not really that close to the pro standard. Got me comfortably to Worlds. Didn't get a coach until last summer & did meet with a few different people. One was basically like why do you want to turn pro at all don't waste your time with that & another had a lot of experience coaching high level athletes & asked me how high I wanted to try to get to in pro races. I went with the latter. I was surprised by the new training -- it was completely different from what I had been doing. I had been hitting a ton of volume (like you) with a healthy # of easy sessions & a lot of quality that I was comfortable with (70.3/140.6 pace -- Z2/Z3). We actually dropped a lot of volume but my quality has gone way up. I'm working more at the higher intensities which I wouldn't bias myself towards. I'm hovering around more like 13-14 (16-17 here & there) hours/week but there's some quality in almost every session. I'm learning how to ride the bike. My swim is getting a lot better. Last piece of advice is to, yes, upgrade the bike/position/disc wheel/helmet/etc but hard work is still hard work. That stuff isn't going to get the pro license. Train to knock the standard out of the water.

I really liked this episode on Scientific Triathlon from a couple months ago. I think my volume will start to creep up a little more now that I've adjusted to the new training but I did struggle with feeling like I wasn't doing enough when we first got going. Things clicked when I listened to this podcast. The training sounded very similar to what I've been doing the last almost year now. I just raced at the end of April. It was an Olympic that I had also done 2 years ago. 2 years ago the 2 week to 1 week out (self-coached) training week was 17 hours. This year it was 11. But I did ~5 hours of quality this year versus 3 in 2022. & then the race went a lot better in terms of time/place. I swam/biked further up in the field & ran ~same. That's how you're probably going to find some improvement too. Improving from 1:17 (maybe 1:15-16 w./ super shoes) isn't going to be your path. Sure, to podium or finish top-10 at a pro race that's going to need to be sub-1:14 but the training to do that might require all of your time/energy. Gain 10min on the bike and a handful more on the swim. There is nothing wrong with chasing the dream & being a mid-pack pro. Just because there isn't a ton of money in the sport doesn't mean there can't be depth in our pro fields. You just might have to keep a full-time job but if you're happy & want to try to find your limits then stick with it.

It is an interesting question with a wide variety of answers depending on who you talk to. Dreamers and realists both have something to contribute in this discussion. I was in a somewhat similar situation as you in my earlier twenties, except I was faster than you in all in 3 disciplines. I was putting off my career path of being a physician in pursuit of triathlon excellence, albeit at an amateur level. My father gave me a wise piece of advice. Visualize what your life would be like 20 years from now if you decide to become a pro triathlete vs if you pursue a more stable career, considering best case and worse case scenarios. I decided to go to medical school. Here I am 20 years later, training 15-20 hours a week and really enjoying my life. I do sometimes wonder "what if", but to be honest it doesn't really haunt me because I feel like I currently have the best of both worlds. Being an "all-in" pro triathlete is a really difficult lifestyle, and can result in burn out/hating the sport, financial difficulties, and perhaps most importantly limits development of other aspects of your life. I know some very fast ex-pros who are in their 40s, and to be honest they are struggling due to lack of quality job opportunities. You are extremely far away from earning a living at the sport. Just take a look at the times in the pro 70.3 fields to see what it takes to earn a paycheck. In our worsening economic times, finding quality sponsorships will be difficult. For every Sam Long there are twenty guys who are "pros" that will never earn any real money in the sport and have to play a very difficult game of career catch up when they finally call it quits. If you can, try to talk to some ex mid pack pros to get their perspective.

What a pitch! Coaches are becoming Wolf of Wallstreet level of salesmen on here.

Are you sure these guys don’t have a day job? You raise an excellent point (we all learn quickest in our 20’s and 30’s - choosing to not have a “real job” then to build a career is a massive gamble), but I bet that out of the 70 or 80 MPROs in 70.3 Oceanside maybe 5 actually live off training and racing (including sponsorships), while the majority train under 20 hours a week.

Maybe I’m saying something similar to what you’re saying. But it’s not like people spend $2-3m over 15 years of trying to be pro triathletes with zero income from anything and zero skill build up. They must have careers parallel to the MPRO thing. Which means they’re not really gambling.

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"FTP is a bit 2015, don't you think?" - Gustav Iden

OP should review Justin Riele's pathway:
https://stats.protriathletes.org/athlete/justin-riele
"Justin races for Team Every Man Jack and is coached by Lauren Goss of Blacksheep Endurance."
He's on here as @TriSki20 (same age as the OP) and raced superbly at Oceanside.
and did an AMA here: https://forum.slowtwitch.com/...e_amateur)_P8110069/

I have a pretty ideal circumstance, and I imagine a lot are in a similar situation. Work from home, no kids, supportive wife. Train an hour or two before work or during lunch, train a few hours after work, train a lot on the weekends. It doesn't leave a lot of time for watching Netflix but it's very doable. Kids and an office job with a commute are not compatible with high volume training.

Yeah, everyone's circumstances are different. My point mainly applies to pros who wish to make triathlon their primary job. IMO it's a big risk, but also seems to be the only path for those who wish to be at the very top. The fastest pros in the U.S. at the 70.3 distance/PTO distance are Sam Long, Jason West, Rudy Von Berg, Ben Kanute, Lionel Sanders, Marc Dubrick, and Trevor Foley. These guys don't have full time jobs/careers outside of triathlon.

With this caveat, I agree with everything you said.

There are examples of triathletes who successfully completed a "safer" path: from normal job to part time job to full time PRO triathlon. I mean Skye Moench (PTO #15 and former #7) and Ruth Astle (former #19), and surely a bunch of other high ranked athletes that we don't even know have a non-sports background.

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"FTP is a bit 2015, don't you think?" - Gustav Iden

This.

It doesn't have to be an either/or choosing between a career or turning pro. There isn't much money in the sport. Look at the 70.3 Oceanside results. Tons of good athletes didn't get paid there. A lot of long course pros have part-time or full-time jobs. The question is if you want to be a top AGer & win all the time or figure out how good you can get as a pro.

This.

Imagine the two paths and which may fill you with regret.

Took a few years out of my post-college career to chase pro sport, didn't work out, but found a job an turned that work ethic toward a normal career that was delayed and/or set back by this chase.

Took a job straight out of college and gave up on hopes of pro sport, made more money straight away and in the long run too.


Neither is right or wrong, just different.

Another way of thinking about this is a lot of people work straight out of college to build careers and provide for families.

Eventually if they are lucky they can shed all the baggage of the working world and on their fortune go on the MPro55-59 or MPro60-64 program or FPro55-59 or FPro60-64 (I just give those as normal retirement ages). If you have your health at that point, you can train and race like a pro, make zero money, have infinite time, travel to camps and races....and mainly not have any work obligations.

Or you can do it at 20-24, 25-29, 30-34.

No different. You barely make money, but you are basically living a retired person's lifestyle. In the case of doing it when young, you have your health and you don't have much money. If you do it after 55, you likely have money but you likely don't have health (at least not the health of a 30 year old).

So pick which version you want to take. I am looking forward to the MPro60-64 program. I won't generate revenue from anything by then, but I will have enough money but health will be crap compared to at 25. At 25 I had infinite health and realistically even at that age I had 12 months of savings runway and no debts to just do nothing and train and race, but I felt I needed to be "responsible" and move into real adult life.

Realistically, I should be retired now and just doing sport, but I have obligations in my professional life that I have to see through....so hoping in 2-4 years.

A few hit the jackpot and the the genetics and relatively privileged life to get exposed to triathlon young enough to go pro and make money in a young phase of their adult life while doing triathlon full time

Comparing the MPRO life to a healthy age group retiree life if very interesting and I never though about it.

Still, the nature of the competition is so different. At the risk of becoming Captain Obvious: M60 and M65 folk say that if you have good knees, hips and back and no heart problems or other major health issues, you can pick up world champs slots like strawberries.

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"FTP is a bit 2015, don't you think?" - Gustav Iden

We must have had very similar parents!! (I am an MD/Specialist as well).
I was half decent on the bike as a novice, my dad was a very very decent amateur cyclist.
They phrased things similar to what your father did....where will you be in 20 years time etc....
I have never once regretted the life choices they assisted me with!!


Changing topics...
Many on here have alluded to the financial downside to going pro in terms of lost income and lost future earnings etc, as I did in my reply as well.
Don't underestimate the impact of this on your future. It may not seem that hard now, or that important, but even at the age of 30 it is. Life gets harder and more expensive as you get older and taking a bit financial hit for a few years, that you could have potentially avoided, does have some decent downstream impacts, especially when you start to look at proper adulting type things like raising a family and putting a roof over their heads etc. (If this is on your life goals, I realise for some it is not).

haha, if you think having healthy knees, heart, hips is easy at 60+ I have news for you.

having said that, the point is doing triathlon/sport full time. It requires health and money. If you do it early in life, you need extremely good genetics to pay for groceries. If you do it late in life, you need decent genetics just to do it, and you likely have limited to no issues to cover all the costs of tri, and pay for roof over your head and groceries.

But largely it is the same thing. All you do is sport which other people have to fit in around work. And you have to fund it somehow.

The reason why pro triathlon is paid so poorly is no one cares to pay to watch it. People pay to DO IT. A few very fortunate pros get paid to do it. Everyone else pays to do it. Ironman has cracked the code on how to exploit us age groupers while minimally keeping a few pros paid to make it a bit of a show. But really if pros could be paid zero, they would be paid zero and largely most pros get paid zero (which is the same as what most age groupers get paid).

You can, you know, do both.

Check out Justin Riele, he went AG to Pro and still works full time in tech industry in Henderson, NV. In his Youtube videos he talks about the decision to still work since he makes really good money and is still finding success as a pro. Also, he said his wife would kill him if he dropped to making mid level pro triathlete money. He biked with Lionel and Sam at Oceanside and came top 10 there and at St George.

Regarding early vs late, I suggest that doing it regularly in life will keep you healthy to do it later in life.
https://www.researchgate.net/...r-old_fig1_338446940

As far as going pro, my take is those numbers obviously don't cut it yet, but you could get there in time. If your dreams are to be a competitive pro, that's a different scenario than what I'm speaking to. But if you can put in a couple years of consistent work, not trying to be a hero in any one work out but being consistent across those two years in prioritizing quality training over racing; then I think there's a good chance you could go pro.

Look at the USAT requirements to go pro to see the best chance, which I presume means targeting the smallest possible (but still within limits) pro race that you'll be able to go for your top AG place.

Earn that pro slot, call yourself a pro. Get "free" races (after your licensing fees are paid) and look forward to travelling around the US being a back of pack pro.

Or just do 3 national races a year, place in the top 5-10 consistently and be happy being one of the best age groupers. I'm not really sure I see the benefit of being pro when I look at it from that angle. If you get it, take it. But don't bet the farm on it. Just have a good time and train consistently without trying to be a hero.

Good luck!

Yeah but lets be real how much 'work' is actually involved in working in tech. its just like being in talk therapy where I live. talkie talkie not much workie workie. :)

Justin Riele has posted here about his transition to the pro field while balancing his other job. You might be underestimating the mental load of attending all sorts of team meetings. But a fully remote job definitely helps a ton if anyone wants to do both.

To the OP id suggest a slightly different approach. With a very strong run avg bike weak swim u probably can secure an assistant coach type role with a decent squad and some run shoe run swag sponsorships now as an AG. Nutrition and other run related stuff. Maybe do some stuff with a local bike shop free in return for content, hours and they give u cheaper bike stuff. Build social media content and make yourself marketable. U need coaching for sure on swim and bike this can help.

With that level of run that's where to focus first, if u can't hustle at this point u will not financially survive as a pro, and the coaching and access to cheaper gear will help fund and continue even as a strong AGer.

As u get better performances u can consider stepping up although super strong AG is also a great position and maybe more doable.

I wouldn't wait until u are 50 if u feel u can do now. A lot has to go right to train hard at 50 especially if u didn't train hard prior, and motivation life etc changes. I'm in that position now semi retired and seeing how I go in the full distance - these are the good times.