Why don't triathletes actually hire an s&c coach have a program written for them with appropriate exercises and loading.

A good strength program requires context on many aspects of your genetic makeup, your strength and weaknesses, your training load, your sleep, your nutrition.

Athletes spend $$$$$$$$ on bikes, gadgets, super shoes, endurance based supplements but nothing on strength training from a coaching perspective.

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Andrew Garwood
http://www.2xu.com
http://www.newtonrunning.com
http://www.ascendsport.com.au

Thank you for your reply.
Receiving a program from a qualified coach does seem like the best approach.
However, I'm also interested in hearing what other athletes generally think.

Why doesn't it

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Andrew Garwood
http://www.2xu.com
http://www.newtonrunning.com
http://www.ascendsport.com.au

What is muscular endurance?

I think strength for triathlete or runner should be based on max strength (3-5 reps) and/or plyometric. To work on the nervous system, and the stiffness properties of the muscle/tendon (to improve the energetic cost).
With 3x10 you're closer to strength endurance, you could not have the benefits of max strength, you will be tired, and you'd be better served be working on ME specificaly (running uphill, long rides etc..).
You can do more reps for preventive work (shoulder external rotators, hip abductors, foot work...)

However, I practice trail running and XC ski, and doing some block of muscular endurance (6x10reps step up with some weight, lunges, jump lunges) really boost my uphill run when it's too cold or dark to go out and practice it specifically running. To add some variety also.

Hard to answer your specific questions as training is so individual and I don’t know how hard the rest of your schedule is. Re advice to get S&C coaching - I agree that could help and it’s something I’ve done myself - but in the end you (or your triathlon coach if you have one) still have to solve the puzzle of where best to fit S&C work into your weekly schedule. I’ve shared mine below in case helpful.

I’d be surprised if you can’t fit 1x strength session pw without undue fatigue. Would also be surprised if the feelings of acute fatigue / DOMS didn’t improve by sticking at it for a few weeks (which isn’t to say that your legs would feel fresh the next day). If you’ve already been doing for a while and you are still getting acute DOMS then there might be something else going on. You might want to experiment with where you place your strength session during the week to try to learn what works for you. Sounds like you’re currently doing them on Mon after a high-ish weekend training load - not surprised you are a bit sore after that. Consider doing strength as part of a ‘hard day’ when you do, say, a hard SB or R in the morning and then strength in the PM … and then a easier day following so you can recover.

I am 55yo male. This year I hit the weight training harder / more consistently than previous winters - partly as rehab for some injury issues and partly to mitigate risk of age-related muscle loss.

I was doing heavy-ish weights 3x per week (and another 2 days per week doing supplemental exercises to address a couple of imbalance issues). I found the acute soreness passed quite quickly into the programme … but the general fatigue was quite high. I couldn’t have managed regular interval training alongside the strength work - but I did manage a reasonable level (14ish hrs pw over 12 weeks) of easy endurance work + little spices of faster SBR.

I varied it a bit but an example weekly schedule for this was:
Mon: AM - run short hill reps; PM - swim + main strength session
Tue: AM - bike endurance + short run brick; PM - supplemental strength session
Wed: AM - swim + main strength; PM - easy run + optional strides
Thu: AM - swim + supplemental strength; PM longer run
Fri: AM - swim + main strength; PM easy bike/cadence drills
Sat: AM bike endurance
Sun: day off or optional easy short swim/bike

Now I’m into a phase of doing more specific prep for race season, I’m doing 1x main strength per week (and 2x supplemental sessions). For the main strength session I’m trying to keep same weight I used over the winter for each exercise (but reducing volume (i.e. sets times reps) a bit) - will be interesting to see how long I can maintain for. I do this session on a friday - having done higher intensity SBR earlier in the week. I’m sure my legs would feel fresher on a Sat during bike endurance session without it but it’s ok and I just keep it easy on the Sat bike. I do 20-30min supplemental strength sessions on Mon and Wed (working on some imbalances) and don’t find those create much fatigue for other sessions.

Good luck!

ETA: just read the post above mine which reminded me to say that for my main strength sessions I do 5 reps for the reasons they said. I do higher reps for the supplemental exercises but that’s for a different purpose.

Check out some of the content from one of our slowtwitch members. Unfortunately, it looks like they took down his endurance lifting template but you might be able to buy a copy from him directly.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wTd5sKez1Tg

Check the links in the video comments. I suspect this article was written by him as well.

An excellent video from Alex here:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cYMlFdQwxus

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Kiwami Racing Team

I think about strength training the same way I think about S, B, and R, which is to say it is consistency that matters most. 2-3 sessions a week provides a lot of benefits, especially to older athletes like me. The particular set of workouts isn't critical. The best program is the one that I will actually complete.

Can share what I do. About 30 minutes of moderate strength training 5-6 days a week. Skipping on the tri heavy days like a long run or a brick day.

Routine: rubber bands between knees or ankles, situps, pushups, smaller dumbbells, plank position, superman position on a balance ball for swim core strength. Do it all at home.

Im likely older than you. But agree with less volume and heavier weights. I do 3x3 of squats, deads and presses once a week.
A couple of accessory exercises during the same sessions. I have trouble recovering from higher rep sets including the soreness. Im able to progress and also maintain strength during tri training season.

Time. Most people taking their training seriously simply don't have time for anything other than s/b/r. If you're doing 18-20 hours training for an Ironman, you're not going to have time or the energy to do anything else other than eat, shit and sleep. Also if you try telling your missus you're off to the gym for a strength session after you've clocked in 18 hours for the week, training wise, good chance she won't be there when you get back.

Check out the Valere app from the App Store.
Has great strength and conditioning programs for endurance athletes.
Nick and Kate coach triathletes and have their own strength and conditioning gym and Kate has a PhD in S&C for endurance athletes. They train Joe Skipper from the S&C perspective and he features in their app etc.

Something to that, the specialty block of my Full Ironman builds I put strength training on the back burner.

Of course the very last hour of training in any single discipline is the least effective, and there comes a certain age when maybe you clock in 17 hours and tell your missus you're off to the gym for a strength session for the 18th.

There's always time. It just depends on how you value it.

I'm 50. I didn't do (almost any) strength training from ages 14-45, the period over which I've continuously competed in runnning, rowing, tri, cycing.

I do now. I have no intention of giving up effective range of motion and my already-skinny-endurance-guy muscle mass without a bit of a fight.

Agreed with the outcome goals, but I don't think an S&C coach is the way to go. Most S&C coaches are gym bros who take on clients who want to lose weight by lifting for 30 minutes twice a week. The actual benefits of lifting for endurance sport isn't terribly complicated, but it's so individual that an honest self assessment is probably better than having anything less than a great coach guess at your weaknesses.

Squats and pullup movements are universal in tri training. And weight lifting for endurance sport is not to build more endurance. It's to build absolute strength with the minimal detriment to current endurance training (sbr). 5 sets of 8 squats maxing out will make you very strong and very sore. 3 sets of 3 squats maxing out will make you almost as strong and less sore. Do the big compound moves that target your weaknesses (squat, pull up, bench press, overhead press, lunge, deadlift). Weight training is a supplement to SBR, not a replacement.

Two days a week. 30-45 minutes a session. 15-20 reps a set (i.e. light weight high reps).

I've been using this plan so far this year. So far so good. I've been lifting 2-3 times per week for the last 1.5 years, 45 yr old male. I do a push, pull, knee hinge, back hinge, overhead press and pull along with a few exercises from my PT to keep things in check. Takes about an hour including warmup. I have no intention of dropping lifting from my program from here on out.

https://joefrieltraining.com/muscular-force-training-for-triathlon/

I’m still trying to find a good combo of when and how to do strength training. I’ve done various approaches over the years but still don’t have a perfect solution.

Personally, I find 30 mins of strength training significantly more fatiguing than aerobic work. Probably because I don’t have a single fast twitch muscle in my body. For me, I think I’ve found non-maximal, honestly fairly light training to be the best. Just enough to cause some adaptations without creating the big fatigue that affects the important training. My main goal is injury prevention rather than performance gains.

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