There is no universally agreed upon definition of what those terms mean, so you're probably going to need to be a lot more specific about what you're looking for.

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Tech writer/support on this here site. FIST school instructor and certified bike fitter. Formerly at Diamondback Bikes, LeMond Fitness, FSA, TiCycles, etc.
Coaching and bike fit - http://source-e.net/ Cyclocross blog - https://crosssports.net/ BJJ instruction - https://ballardbjj.com/

Thank you for your quick reply

I’ll go with Josh’s definition at :47 seconds of the video below

Tire is designated as TL

There are very few tires faster than the Conti 5000 TL, a proper tubeless tire, and none of them are Tubeless, so I gotta go with Conti 5000 TL for the win. The new S-TR version isn't tubeless.

Thank you

I’m really trying to stay away from tubeless with all the problems, especially after watching the video above

I’ll probably just stay with latex tubes and not worry about it

Ok, I hear your question. I'd suggest Bicycle Rolling Resistance | Rolling Resistance Tests is the best place to start for answers that you'd accept, noting that you are setting a slightly odd requirement.

The normal 'fast' tyres are all TR. Corsas, GP5000, even the specialised Turbo RapidAir are Tubeless Ready. And that's because no-one is ever going to run them without sealant. And that picture in the video - sure, I've had that on the sidewalls of my lightweight MTB tyres on first install, but never had any issue in use (actually, have never replaced sealant outside of tyre changes and never had a puncture in 14 years of MTB tubeless - clearly will do next ride after this).

You need the sealant for when you get a puncture (the entire benefit of tubeless) and also to get the initial seal of the tyre to rim (and to seal the valve). And the guides for sealant do have an amount for 'initial install' and then 'top up' - essentially to cater for this first absorption.

I won't tell you to just get TR. But I am interested in your reasoning. As it happens I got a puncture on a brand new GP5000 TR today, front tyre. However, all I did was stop, rotate the tyre so the puncture with the hissing noise and sealant bubbling out was at the bottom (touching the road). Waited 15seconds, then it had sealed. Carried on, did another 90k got home and checked and had lost 10psi.

I've not had the best of luck since going tubeless, but equally I've been pleasantly surprised at the lack of hassle on the install. When I first went tubeless on the MTB I lost the will to live trying to seat the sodding things. To date with 4 separate tyres then they've all seated pretty easily with just a normal pump. Only thing with them I'd say is you do need to do the tyre install midweek to make sure that you have time for the sealant to do it's thing and then make sure it's holding air before you head off for a 5 hour ride.

I get it if you don’t want to run tubeless, but why did you ask about tubeless if you’re not going to do it?

FWIW , I’ve run the 5000 TL and the 5000 S TR since their initial release and haven’t had any problems whatsoever.

Thank you for your post

I didn’t realize that the GP 5000 comes in a TL

So you run the GP 5000 TL without sealant the way that Josh says that you can do with a TL tire?



I want to run tubeless that doesn’t need sealant

I seem to have hit a dead end. Anyone know where you can buy continental GP 5000 TL’s?

They have been replaced by the TR - so it would be old stock and you would need sealant anyway. The difference is just in the tyre itself, sealant is needed as I posted above for the interface of tyre and rim and for the valve to rim.

And of course the benefit of tubeless is having the sealant in there for when you do get a puncture.

I'm not sure Josh has really helped you here. Sure he's explained a point in a fair way, and I think it adds to understanding for those with a basic knowledge, but at same time it's created an issue in your mind that should be a secondary consideration, not primary. (Note, I am a fan of the Silca products and in general Josh's videos - his chain prep/waxing ones converted me, it's jsut that specific point that for road tyres I don't think has helped you).

No one in their right mind would run a TL tire without sealant.

I don’t believe the TL version is made anymore. It got replaced with the TR which is faster and much easier to put on. The TL was a total pain in the ass to mount. The non tubeless 5000 was actually faster w/ a latex tube than the TL.

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The thing that's important to note about "tubeless ready" vs "tubeless" is that every tire has to have some kind of an internal bladder (or equivalent) structure to make it air tight. With normal "tubed" tires, folks have now pretty much fully understood that there are differences in rolling resistance and air permeability between the different types of tubes that one uses to form this bladder. Latex, rolls fast, bleeds air quickly. Butyl, rolls poorly, holds air very well. TPU? Somewhere in the middle.

With a tubeless tire, this bladder is either vulcanized into the tire sidewall, or poured into the tire in liquid form. Latex sealant in a "tubeless ready" tire *is*, for all intents and purposes, a latex tube, just in liquid form.
When a tire has an air tight coating bonded to it in the factory it is almost always a butyl coating. For all intents and purposes, it is a butyl tube, just bonded directly to the tire. TPU coatings are just now starting to hit, and some of the tire manufacturers have their pros running next gen tires which use this material.

The basic performance correlation that we associate with these materials largely holds true whether they are used to form a discrete tube, or create a virtual tube inside a tubeless tire system. Latex is fast, and most of the fastest tires will rely upon a liquid latex sealant to form the virtual tube. Latex isn't very heat resistant, tends to degrade quickly under harsh conditions, and isn't compatible with many modern tire manufacturing processes, and as a result almost all fully "tubeless" tires currently use a butyl sidewall treatment to form their virtual tube.

Remember, latex = fast = sealant. Butyl = slow = permanent sidewall treatment.

There *are* some tire manufacturers that manage to work around this conundrum to a greater or lesser extent by utilizing very thin butyl coatings or permanent latex treatments, but as a general rule the closer to fully tubeless a tire is, the worse the rolling resistance is likely to be, because it will most likely have the equivalent of a butyl tube in it.

So if you want a really "fast" tire, you probably want "tubeless ready". If you don't want to deal with actual tubeless, just put a latex tube in the darn thing. Sealant *is* a latex tube, it just happens to be in a (mostly) liquid form.

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Tech writer/support on this here site. FIST school instructor and certified bike fitter. Formerly at Diamondback Bikes, LeMond Fitness, FSA, TiCycles, etc.
Coaching and bike fit - http://source-e.net/ Cyclocross blog - https://crosssports.net/ BJJ instruction - https://ballardbjj.com/

No, I don’t run them without sealant. Just because you can doesn’t mean you should.

Josh doesn't say you can run without sealant. He says the sealant isn't needed to make the tyre airtight.

Yowza 😳

I’m definitely getting an educational. Thanks so much for taking the time to post all of that.

Thanks for posting you really helped me make my decision which way to go. Much appreciated.

Great info really getting an education in this entire thread. Thanks so much for all you do for a slow twitch

Is it possible install Continental GP5000 TT with latex tubes? Will be the same performance? Regards

Yes, and yes.