S-Works Shiv TT vs Factor Hanzo (and general advice)

Oct 22, 23 10:29

Post #1 of 15 (2160 views)

Hello! New user here, starting to get into the wonder world of time trials. I'm currently using a standard road bike with some aero clip on extensions, but I know this is going to be a limiting factor in any kind of competition. I don't have any true TT races on my calendar until about a year from now (24-hour worlds in 2024), but I'd like to find a TT bike by at least the start of next summer so I can get it dialed in properly. I'm totally ok with buying used, but I just don't want to end up with something that will be obsolete soon, I plan to keep the bike for a minimum of 3-5 years.

The two bikes that mostly have caught my eye are the Factor Hanzo and S-Works Shiv TT, but I can't find much info about how they compare to each other. From what I can tell, the Shiv TT is one of the lightest weight options and also handles pretty well, which could be good for long courses with some moderate climbs/descents if it lets me comfortably ride those without trying to swap to a climbing bike. Also for longer rides, I would prefer a frame that can easily accommodate 28-30mm tires on modern wider rims such as 22-23mm internal width aero rims. I feel like the increased comfort would be valuable on 24+ hour rides especially. The Factor looks like it might be a bit more updated in regards to bike design, but I've not seen much (if any) hard evidence suggesting it is any better than the Shiv TT.

Most of my goal events are non UCI-regulated, so whichever bike I end up with doesn't necessarily have to be UCI-compliant, but it would be really nice if it were, because I have not ruled out the possibility of trying some of the bigger US races within the next year or two. Any advice at all is greatly appreciated, and I look forward to learning more from this group.

Re: S-Works Shiv TT vs Factor Hanzo (and general advice) [Blue Hubbard] [ In reply to ]

Oct 24, 23 12:32

Post #2 of 15 (1958 views)

Makes sense to get a UCI legal set up if you might want to race bikes requiring those rules.

The starting point should probably be identifying what bikes fit you. Get a professional fit and they should provide you with coordinates which will narrow the field of which bike...

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Re: S-Works Shiv TT vs Factor Hanzo (and general advice) [Blue Hubbard] [ In reply to ]

Oct 24, 23 12:42

Post #3 of 15 (1947 views)

Both those bikes are probably fast, but I'd recommend against the Factor. It's a cool concept, but setting your bars requires a permanent trim of the steerer tube, and you may want to play with your position a bit between short time trials and 24 hour time trials.

The shiv TT is a great bike, only other I'd recommend looking at is the cervelo P5; cervelo has a history of fast bikes and all indications I've seen are that it continues that same trend.

Re: S-Works Shiv TT vs Factor Hanzo (and general advice) [imswimmer328] [ In reply to ]

Oct 24, 23 12:47

Post #4 of 15 (1942 views)

imswimmer328 wrote:

Both those bikes are probably fast, but I'd recommend against the Factor. It's a cool concept, but setting your bars requires a permanent trim of the steerer tube, and you may want to play with your position a bit between short time trials and 24 hour time trials.

The shiv TT is a great bike, only other I'd recommend looking at is the cervelo P5; cervelo has a history of fast bikes and all indications I've seen are that it continues that same trend.

Good point about the Factor's adjustability and cutting the steerer tube. I can definitely see myself wanting to have a wide range of adjustability down the road, because this same bike might be asked to do anything from a short 10 mile TT during a road race, up to pulling long haul duty on the open road for races such as RAW or RAAM, and I'm sure my position will be different for each of these.

Re: S-Works Shiv TT vs Factor Hanzo (and general advice) [Blue Hubbard] [ In reply to ]

Oct 24, 23 13:25

Post #5 of 15 (1912 views)

Blue Hubbard wrote:

because this same bike might be asked to do anything from a short 10 mile TT during a road race, up to pulling long haul duty on the open road for races such as RAW or RAAM, and I'm sure my position will be different for each of these.

If you're thinking that you may be changing your position for different events the P5 is the clear choice - the monoriser makes it very easy to move the bars up and down. And it has more bar adjustment in general than the Shiv TT Disc or Hanzo.

Re: S-Works Shiv TT vs Factor Hanzo (and general advice) [imswimmer328] [ In reply to ]

Oct 24, 23 13:32

Post #6 of 15 (1902 views)

This was a driving Factor (pun intended) for me getting a P5D and not the Hanzo.

Re: S-Works Shiv TT vs Factor Hanzo (and general advice) [Blue Hubbard] [ In reply to ]

Oct 25, 23 12:52

Post #7 of 15 (1771 views)

The Shiv TT is really hard to ahold of. If Alex Dowsett, who is sponsored by Specialized, can’t get one, I doubt you can find one.

The criticism of the Hanzo is kind of silly because you can leave the steerer uncut or cut it at your 10 mile TT height and add spacers to raise the extensions, just like the Shiv or Speed Concept. That being said the P5, which is another bike that can be difficult to get your hands on, is the easiest to adjust height.

Two other pure TT bikes to consider are the new Scott and the Orbea. The Orbea has a cockpit that has height adjustments like the P5 and the Scott is maybe the only bike with extensions that you might actually want to use.

The million dollar question nobody seems to be able to answer (or would be willing to spill the beans) is whether any of these bikes is more aero than the other. My guess is the differences are small and it really comes down to component/wheel selection. I looked at the available bikes this year and ended up with a Hanzo frame, 1x Ultegra 12sp and a mixture of aero bits from Wattshop, AeroCoach and Revolver.

Re: S-Works Shiv TT vs Factor Hanzo (and general advice) [Blue Hubbard] [ In reply to ]

Oct 25, 23 13:24

Post #8 of 15 (1743 views)

Just go find a good deal on the used market for a bike that fits you, I don't think there's much of a difference between tt bikes produced in the last 10 years. I'm using a 2013 cervelo p2 and it works totally fine. I haven't won any Ironmans yet..... I don't think it's because of the bike 😂😂😂 if you're just doing triathlon as a hobby then you can skimp on the bike a bit because the difference between the best and worst tri bike is barely anything. If anything, I'd get a cheap bike and an aero sensor then I'd adjust the position and try different clothing/helmet to get really aero. Because if you think about it, bike frame has probably the worst watts/dollar.

Honestly I'd probably try to get a bike with disc brakes cause it'll be in fashion longer it seems. I'd also try to get one without a proprietary front end so it's easy to work with, take apart, and adjust. Then I'd try to get a good deal. You could even get a Chinese frame then build it up the way you like.

Last edited by: rainstorm: Oct 25, 23 13:25

Re: S-Works Shiv TT vs Factor Hanzo (and general advice) [rainstorm] [ In reply to ]

Oct 25, 23 13:48

Post #9 of 15 (1708 views)

rainstorm wrote:

Just go find a good deal on the used market for a bike that fits you, I don't think there's much of a difference between tt bikes produced in the last 10 years. I'm using a 2013 cervelo p2 and it works totally fine. I haven't won any Ironmans yet..... I don't think it's because of the bike 😂😂😂 if you're just doing triathlon as a hobby then you can skimp on the bike a bit because the difference between the best and worst tri bike is barely anything. If anything, I'd get a cheap bike and an aero sensor then I'd adjust the position and try different clothing/helmet to get really aero. Because if you think about it, bike frame has probably the worst watts/dollar.

Honestly I'd probably try to get a bike with disc brakes cause it'll be in fashion longer it seems. I'd also try to get one without a proprietary front end so it's easy to work with, take apart, and adjust. Then I'd try to get a good deal. You could even get a Chinese frame then build it up the way you like.

I do agree that there are probably not significant gains to be had with a slightly older bike vs a newer one. I've got about as "standard" of a road bike as you can imagine, big round tubes, cables/hoses flapping in the wind, and cheap/heavy/shallow alloy wheels. I bet almost anything would be faster than this, even with my clip-on extensions. I'm a pure cyclist though, so no running or swimming for me! My target events are pretty big ones, so I do think even relatively small differences will add up after 24+ hours, even 0.05 mph difference is a 1.2 mile lead over the course of a race. That being said, these races are rarely won by margins that small, so there are clearly a ton of other factors that go into it besides the equipment choice. I just want something reliable that will not be considered "obsolete" the year after I get it. I'm sure an older P5 or something similar would be great. Adjustability is a big factor for sure, especially as I work on dialing in my position. I've got a few different size spacers on order for my road extensions, so I'll try to get a better idea of what position I'd like before I order something.

Re: S-Works Shiv TT vs Factor Hanzo (and general advice) [grumpier.mike] [ In reply to ]

Oct 25, 23 14:22

Post #10 of 15 (1689 views)

grumpier.mike wrote:

The Shiv TT is really hard to ahold of. If Alex Dowsett, who is sponsored by Specialized, can’t get one, I doubt you can find one.

The criticism of the Hanzo is kind of silly because you can leave the steerer uncut or cut it at your 10 mile TT height and add spacers to raise the extensions, just like the Shiv or Speed Concept. That being said the P5, which is another bike that can be difficult to get your hands on, is the easiest to adjust height.

Two other pure TT bikes to consider are the new Scott and the Orbea. The Orbea has a cockpit that has height adjustments like the P5 and the Scott is maybe the only bike with extensions that you might actually want to use.

The million dollar question nobody seems to be able to answer (or would be willing to spill the beans) is whether any of these bikes is more aero than the other. My guess is the differences are small and it really comes down to component/wheel selection. I looked at the available bikes this year and ended up with a Hanzo frame, 1x Ultegra 12sp and a mixture of aero bits from Wattshop, AeroCoach and Revolver.

I do like the Orbea brand, I have a Terra gravel bike and it's been an absolute champ for me. I'm not as familiar with the Scott, but it does look rather nice as well. I'm sure they are all extremely similar to each other in terms of aero performance, so I highly doubt a person could truly go wrong by picking any of them. How are you liking the Hanzo so far? Tire clearance is something I am interested in with all these, for sure. I'll likely run 28mm tires most of the time, but I'm also interested in being able to run maybe a bit bigger such as 30mm tires for long training rides- the increased comfort might be worth something during training at least.

Re: S-Works Shiv TT vs Factor Hanzo (and general advice) [Blue Hubbard] [ In reply to ]

Oct 25, 23 14:29

Post #11 of 15 (1685 views)

If you get a cheap frame, then if you can upgrade the frame later you can then sell the frame you have. I would just make sure the frame you get will work with future components because you might want to keep the components. So, I'd prioritize a newer frame over like a nicer older bike. If you could get a used tt bike with disc brakes, I think it'd be better than a p5. The p5 has rim brakes, you might buy race wheels at some point. Let's say in 4 years, then 3 years after that maybe you'll change the p5 frame. It might be a pain to sell your perfectly good rim brake race wheels from 3 years ago and buy a new wheelset you don't need.

If you got something like a p3 frame with disc brakes then you could put an aftermarket handlebar on there $150 used or from China like the p5, you'll go the same speed. You might be able to get a better position this way.

What is a good idea is get a good frame, like a used p3, then put cheap components on it like a microshift advent x. You'll go the same speed as expensive components then when you need maintenance it's cheaper.

Re: S-Works Shiv TT vs Factor Hanzo (and general advice) [Blue Hubbard] [ In reply to ]

Oct 25, 23 15:54

Post #12 of 15 (1637 views)

Blue Hubbard wrote:

grumpier.mike wrote:

The Shiv TT is really hard to ahold of. If Alex Dowsett, who is sponsored by Specialized, can’t get one, I doubt you can find one.

The criticism of the Hanzo is kind of silly because you can leave the steerer uncut or cut it at your 10 mile TT height and add spacers to raise the extensions, just like the Shiv or Speed Concept. That being said the P5, which is another bike that can be difficult to get your hands on, is the easiest to adjust height.

Two other pure TT bikes to consider are the new Scott and the Orbea. The Orbea has a cockpit that has height adjustments like the P5 and the Scott is maybe the only bike with extensions that you might actually want to use.

The million dollar question nobody seems to be able to answer (or would be willing to spill the beans) is whether any of these bikes is more aero than the other. My guess is the differences are small and it really comes down to component/wheel selection. I looked at the available bikes this year and ended up with a Hanzo frame, 1x Ultegra 12sp and a mixture of aero bits from Wattshop, AeroCoach and Revolver.

I do like the Orbea brand, I have a Terra gravel bike and it's been an absolute champ for me. I'm not as familiar with the Scott, but it does look rather nice as well. I'm sure they are all extremely similar to each other in terms of aero performance, so I highly doubt a person could truly go wrong by picking any of them. How are you liking the Hanzo so far? Tire clearance is something I am interested in with all these, for sure. I'll likely run 28mm tires most of the time, but I'm also interested in being able to run maybe a bit bigger such as 30mm tires for long training rides- the increased comfort might be worth something during training at least.

My training wheels have GP5000s with a 25 front and 28 rear and the clearences are anple. I bet you could get 32s in there.

Re: S-Works Shiv TT vs Factor Hanzo (and general advice) [grumpier.mike] [ In reply to ]

Dec 20, 23 16:18

Post #13 of 15 (1212 views)

grumpier.mike wrote:

The Shiv TT is really hard to ahold of. If Alex Dowsett, who is sponsored by Specialized, can’t get one, I doubt you can find one.

The criticism of the Hanzo is kind of silly because you can leave the steerer uncut or cut it at your 10 mile TT height and add spacers to raise the extensions, just like the Shiv or Speed Concept. That being said the P5, which is another bike that can be difficult to get your hands on, is the easiest to adjust height.

Two other pure TT bikes to consider are the new Scott and the Orbea. The Orbea has a cockpit that has height adjustments like the P5 and the Scott is maybe the only bike with extensions that you might actually want to use.

The million dollar question nobody seems to be able to answer (or would be willing to spill the beans) is whether any of these bikes is more aero than the other. My guess is the differences are small and it really comes down to component/wheel selection. I looked at the available bikes this year and ended up with a Hanzo frame, 1x Ultegra 12sp and a mixture of aero bits from Wattshop, AeroCoach and Revolver.

Yo! So I found a Shiv frame in my size, probably going to pull the trigger on it this week unless anything else pops up at the last minute. I have started looking at the Look 796 Monoblade RS, as it appears to be a similar design but with a steeper seat tube angle and more tire clearance, allowing for up to 32mm tires vs 28mm for the Shiv. Any concerns going with the Look as opposed to the S-Works?

Re: S-Works Shiv TT vs Factor Hanzo (and general advice) [Blue Hubbard] [ In reply to ]

IKnowEverything

Dec 20, 23 16:27

Post #14 of 15 (1205 views)

Curious where you found the Look in stock - probably equally hard to get.

If you’re US based, Look customer service is absolutely atrocious. If you need any spare parts or warranty service, you’ll either be out of luck or they’ll take forever and make you pay all the return shipping costs.

I ordered a set of aerobars a few years back and they sent me a faulty pair - the base bar didn’t have holes drilled in it to attach the risers. They made me ship it back to Europe on my dime (even though it came from a US dealer), and when the dealer protested Look referenced their dealer agreement and basically said if they didn’t like it, the dealer was welcome to drop Look products.

So like most high end wuro bike companies - great products, terrible QC and customer service.

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Re: S-Works Shiv TT vs Factor Hanzo (and general advice) [Blue Hubbard] [ In reply to ]

Dec 20, 23 20:24

Post #15 of 15 (1166 views)

Blue Hubbard wrote:

grumpier.mike wrote:

The Shiv TT is really hard to ahold of. If Alex Dowsett, who is sponsored by Specialized, can’t get one, I doubt you can find one.

The criticism of the Hanzo is kind of silly because you can leave the steerer uncut or cut it at your 10 mile TT height and add spacers to raise the extensions, just like the Shiv or Speed Concept. That being said the P5, which is another bike that can be difficult to get your hands on, is the easiest to adjust height.

Two other pure TT bikes to consider are the new Scott and the Orbea. The Orbea has a cockpit that has height adjustments like the P5 and the Scott is maybe the only bike with extensions that you might actually want to use.

The million dollar question nobody seems to be able to answer (or would be willing to spill the beans) is whether any of these bikes is more aero than the other. My guess is the differences are small and it really comes down to component/wheel selection. I looked at the available bikes this year and ended up with a Hanzo frame, 1x Ultegra 12sp and a mixture of aero bits from Wattshop, AeroCoach and Revolver.

Yo! So I found a Shiv frame in my size, probably going to pull the trigger on it this week unless anything else pops up at the last minute. I have started looking at the Look 796 Monoblade RS, as it appears to be a similar design but with a steeper seat tube angle and more tire clearance, allowing for up to 32mm tires vs 28mm for the Shiv. Any concerns going with the Look as opposed to the S-Works?

I have no experience with the Look. I don't think you can tell from a picture anything about aerodynamics at this level of bike. The aero bar setup looks a little odd, but it looks reasonably adjustable and might be comfortable. I can tell you that the first thing I would be doing with the shiv is gettting rid of the cockpit.

The extra tire clearence doesn't seem useful. Nobody makes a really fast tire in a 32mm width, there aren't any.many TT specific wheels designed for that width, Crr saving diminish once you get past about 25mm, and you just can't overcome the A part of CdA. Save the 32mm tires for light gravel applications and touring.

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