If you don't enjoy doing something don't do it.
If you are doing something that is soul crushing,stop doing it.
You don't "need" to do 6hr rides if you don't want to do 6hr rides.
If this is your hobby and you are doing it for fun then stop doing the stuff that stops making it fun.

You don't need to go 6 hours. Seriously.

For newbies it can be worthwhile because being in the aerobars for that long on race day is often eye-opening. But as an experienced long-courser, if being comfortably in the aero position that long isn't a concern, then don't do training rides for 6 hours. Physiologically you're getting all the adaptation you need from 3-4 hours. Do multiple 3-hour rides during a block instead of a monster 6-hour ride.

Thanks I think you explain it well that psyilogically I’m getting the benefits from 3-4. I’m a marathon runner coming to tri a handful of years ago and my rule was always never exceed 2.5-3 hrs.

I’m a 10-11 hr full distance guy and very comfortable in aero as my bike is fit perfectly to me from day 1.

When you say multiple 3 hr rides do you mean multiple in a week or is one a week ok? I usually ride 3x a week (one easy, one workout and one long with the easy and workout being 1-2 hrs)

That's tough to answer as it depends on the overall training plan. I just meant that if a week has, say, a 6-hour ride, a 2-hour ride, and a 1-hour ride (ignoring intensity for simplicity), and then you change the 6-hour ride to 4 hours, you're doing less overall workload. 7 hours instead of 9. Maybe that's fine. But if you're using some training stress metric like TSS, you'd need to either bump up intensity or hours in the shorter rides to meet the same workload.

Alan couzens has a lot of stuff out there, Seiller has a pretty good video explaining drift over duration, Mark Alan talks about different metabolic turn points at 3-6-9 hours. InIgo san Milan also explains expansion of MCT1 in slowtwitch fibers (reduction/repatriation in BL and CO2, increase in O2 as a percentage= better substrate utilization) IE 5X1 hour is not the same as 5 hours....and still not the same as 5 hours specific.

The danger is saying 3-4 hours is "OK" and falling into the trap of reducing global volume. Honestly it depends on your specific goals and if this is fun/complete or pursuing performance.

Maurice

Is it possible to do your long rides with friends? Even it's only for some of the distance.

As TU alluded to, we're primarily doing the sport for enjoyment.

I'm not sure if there is a real right answer. For me, I honestly would look forward to the long ride. Getting up stupid early to fit it in before the activities of the day with the family was always a huge motivation. When I was training for IM Norway in 2019 I was getting up to start riding at 3 AM, which would cloesely correspond with the same time in Norway that I'd be doing the bike leg - I wanted to do it and was excited at the lead in to the race. If you aren't excited about it and looking forward to the challenge, maybe you got to question your 'why.'

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Why is it soul-sucking? Boredom? Too big a time commitment with other stuff? It doesn’t seem like you’re uncomfortable based on other statements, or like you are riding it too hard. Maybe ride with a group / do a point-to-point ride / ride to a destination, spend half the day there (possibly including other exercise… run/hike/canoe/kayak…), ride back? Lots of ways to mix things up besides long steady time in aero. which it seems you know how to do.

I just don’t want to spend that much time on the bike with or without friends. I can physically ride for 10 hrs without problem if you asked me to so I see no challenge in completing 6.

My race bike split in a full is just over 5 hrs and every time i get to T2 praising the lord I’m about to start the run. I do enjoy the first 3 or so hours of the bike during a race. I have no problem with the marathon and really enjoy that part of the race (same with swim).

Some options …

- Don’t do Ironmans so you don’t need long rides
- Don’t do long rides over 3hrs and simply accept suboptimal Ironman performance. You’re not a pro, it’s fine.
- Do a 5+ hr ride just 2-3 times per cycle. Might work out fine.
- Find a way to make the long ride more fun.

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Dimond Bikes Superfan

Why are you doing 3 hour runs…?

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@floathammerholdon | @partners_in_tri

Some questions:

1) how much do you think performance would suffer with sticking with only 3 hr rides

2) i actually only do 3 5+ hr rides per cycle. Are you saying that’s not enough or I would see a lot of perf gains if I did more? How much would you estimate?

1- A key performance indicator is your excitedness and willingness to do long sessions. Reluctance to go on long rides is not a great marker

2- Long rides can be boring, but there's ways to make them less boring. I personally can't imagine a better day than a sunrise to sunset bike ride. But for an average weekend it can be fun to throw in minimalist structure. A 6h ride with 10min IM pace every hour is a lot more stimulating, mentally and physically. Go crazy and do things like an 20min TT first then the rest of your ride, or a 4h IM pace plus 2h easy.

3- You don't need to go for long rides. You don't need to do IM's either. How good do you want to be? The 3h run is probably doing more damage than good, unless you have a background in ultramarathons.

Ultimately the answer is either learn to love it or grin and bear it. Podcasts, music, outdoors, friends, hills, fall foliage, I'm grateful for the time on the bike.

This is my question too. Holy shit that is a long run and seems counterproductive. Literally every coach I've ever heard talk about running says anything over 2 hours max does more harm than good as far as triathlon goes.

I totally agree. Motivation level is a great indicator of how well your training is going.

Maybe specialize in 1/2 distance IM races?

^This

I do long rides on Saturdays because it's what I want to do with my friends, not because a training plan tells me I have to. I couldn't do this sport if I didn't enjoy the training.

Maybe do a few organized centuries.

Caffeine and sugar do wonders for my motivation. So does a destination vs the same roads I always ride.

I don’t think 6hr rides are necessary, especially for someone whos experienced and has a bike split <5hrs.

"Don't run over 2 hours" is not a bad general guideline for triathletes but it's far from some sort of universal truth. Counterproductive here can take two forms: one is injury risk, and the other is excessive fatigue and glycogen depletion that compromise further training. Neither is necessarily of concern if you tick most of the following boxes:

-Easy controlled pace (Z1-low Z2)
-Nowhere near glycogen depletion (well fueled)
-Soft surfaces
-Low runner weight
-Good biomechanics
-Runner recovers fast
-Runner has a lot (~2000+) of annual miles under their belt

OTOH, it's easy for a long run less than 2 hours to be counterproductive and injury-risking if you tick the opposite of many of these boxes (running hard on hard surfaces, tired, heavy, low annual mileage)...

I did a long run with a slower friend a few years ago when I was in peak marathon shape and had been running 2500 mi/year -- 21 miles and a little over 3 hours. It was super easy and I felt essentially no impact the next day. It may not have been the optimal way to use that training time, but it was certainly not counterproductive.

Would you do a 1-2 hour run followed by a 3 hour bike ride? (Or vice-versa but likely more injury risk). Or a day where you bike to a 10k running race (+WU/CD) an hour away from home, then bike back?

I've done a lot of marathons, but no IM races (either half or full) -- so take these suggestions with a big grain of salt. But I'd suggest just making some mixed-exercise big days that get to 5-6 hours total, if you don't feel like a super long ride. I'd have no qualms about advising a runner with a lot of marathons under their belt to have a training cycle where they ran nothing longer than 15-16 miles, so long as they put in enough weekly volume (60+ mpw ideally...).

If you don't enjoy doing something don't do it.
If you are doing something that is soul crushing,stop doing it.
You don't "need" to do 6hr rides if you don't want to do 6hr rides.
If this is your hobby and you are doing it for fun then stop doing the stuff that stops making it fun.


This!

Real sustained success, however you define it in Endurance Sports comes after years and years, of a consistent moderate amount of work. That's why - you REALLY have to like to do this. If makes ALL of it that much easier. If you don't - forcing it will have a limited time lines.

The linger training for me was and still is to a certain degree all about the adventure, exploration and the challenge. Can I ride from here to there? Can I do this loop - do these roads connect up? Where is that cool coffee shop in town X? And so on. It was rarely if ever about the data, information. If I had a 5 hour ride planned. I would head out and really my only guidance was, I needed to start to turn and head form home, around 2 1/2 hours.

Recently for me in addition to Strava the Wandrer App has been super interesting and get's to the roots of the exploration part and gamifies it! https://wandrer.earth/

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Steve Fleck @stevefleck | Blog

I have no idea, this is going to be highly individual. It's possible you will have no further gains and/or losses from more 5+hr rides if those rides cause you to overtrain (which I think is common). Proper pacing and nutrition is going to play a big role as well ... if you don't do the hours it might be fine if you pace conservatively and ace your nutrition, but it'll be a disaster if you don't. Honestly though, if doing a 5hr ride once a month for 2-3/mo before an Ironman is such a burden that you needed to make this thread, why are you doing Ironmans?

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Dimond Bikes Superfan