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Muscle Fatigue or Muscle Weakness?
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Training Question.

I am riding my bike on the trainer in what’s supposed to be a tempo zone. My heart rate is well within my Zone 2 Aerobic Zone (based off Heart Rate Reserve and got my max with a max HR test). My breathing is slow and controlled. Talk test validated, I was talking to my wife and kids throughout. My legs were killing me though, the effort felt very hard on my lower body. I was even borderline cramps in my upper quad and calves at different points.

Some more stats: My cadence averaged 90 RPM for the ride, it was only an hour long including warm up and cool down, just 45 minutes of work.

According to my internal markings I was well within my limits, but on race day I would never hold that power given how my legs felt.

What’s going on? Where is my training deficit?
Last edited by: r0wdiggity: Aug 11, 23 19:00
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Re: Muscle Fatigue or Muscle Weakness? [r0wdiggity] [ In reply to ]
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Your lactate levels were way above :)

More LT1 and LT2 will fix the job.
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Re: Muscle Fatigue or Muscle Weakness? [r0wdiggity] [ In reply to ]
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more taining
more overgeared work

training deficit, likely wanting to built rome in one day, when it takes years.
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Re: Muscle Fatigue or Muscle Weakness? [r0wdiggity] [ In reply to ]
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r0wdiggity wrote:
Training Question.

I am riding my bike on the trainer in what’s supposed to be a tempo zone. My heart rate is well within my Zone 2 Aerobic Zone (based off Heart Rate Reserve and got my max with a max HR test). My breathing is slow and controlled. Talk test validated, I was talking to my wife and kids throughout. My legs were killing me though, the effort felt very hard on my lower body. I was even borderline cramps in my upper quad and calves at different points.

Some more stats: My cadence averaged 90 RPM for the ride, it was only an hour long including warm up and cool down, just 45 minutes of work.

According to my internal markings I was well within my limits, but on race day I would never hold that power given how my legs felt.

What’s going on? Where is my training deficit?


How soon into the ride were your legs killing you?

This happens every tempo ride?

How are your legs during threshold and/or VO2 max efforts?

How many miles or hours training the past 2 months?
Last edited by: MrTri123: Aug 12, 23 4:00
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Re: Muscle Fatigue or Muscle Weakness? [MrTri123] [ In reply to ]
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Pretty soon in, maybe 15 minutes into the ride. It happened earlier in the week on a low aerobic ride as well.

Threshold efforts are my worst enemy, V.O2 max efforts are my bread and butter. I did 3x20min 30/30s earlier in the week and executed fine. The tempo feeling felt like a threshold effort just not at threshold power.

I’m averaging 12 hours/week for the past 2 years or so, last 2 months closer to 14 hours/week. I ride about 6.5-7 hours weekly
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Re: Muscle Fatigue or Muscle Weakness? [r0wdiggity] [ In reply to ]
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What was the conversation with your wife about? Some topics can generate a lot of lactic acid ;-)

Consider introducing some very short punchy intervals 5 minutes into the session. That helps me reduce fatigue later on.
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Re: Muscle Fatigue or Muscle Weakness? [ecce-homo] [ In reply to ]
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It was about watching the Super Mario movie later haha very low stress conversation.

So you are saying add some high intensity in the warmup to wake the legs up?
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Re: Muscle Fatigue or Muscle Weakness? [r0wdiggity] [ In reply to ]
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r0wdiggity wrote:
Pretty soon in, maybe 15 minutes into the ride. It happened earlier in the week on a low aerobic ride as well.

Threshold efforts are my worst enemy, V.O2 max efforts are my bread and butter. I did 3x20min 30/30s earlier in the week and executed fine. The tempo feeling felt like a threshold effort just not at threshold power.

I’m averaging 12 hours/week for the past 2 years or so, last 2 months closer to 14 hours/week. I ride about 6.5-7 hours weekly

To me that is plenty of riding where you should be feeling little to no leg pain on a mod to low tempo ride

Or maybe I don’t know what a tempo ride is Tempo 76 - 87of FTP

Is it possible your zones are off?

Do you have a power meter?

Conversational pace and leg pain doesn’t make sense to me either

For 2 years your legs have killed you 15 minutes into tempo rides?
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Re: Muscle Fatigue or Muscle Weakness? [MrTri123] [ In reply to ]
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Yeah doesn’t make sense to me either. No it’s not been 2 years, I actually used to love tempo workouts. It’s been since about June that Tempo, Sweetspot and Threshold workouts have been overly difficult. Failing tons of workouts and the ones I do complete I’m ready to quit after the first interval and have to grit my teeth through the rest.

I have a Power2Max crank based power meter and I have a power meter on my road bike as well, both match my Saris trainer, so even if inaccurate they are at least precise.

Heart Rate monitor the the new Garmin chest strap, so I trust that data as well.

This tempo workout was between 80-85%.
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Re: Muscle Fatigue or Muscle Weakness? [r0wdiggity] [ In reply to ]
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ericMPro wrote:
Fatigue is metabolic.

I believe the exact quote is "Fatigue is biochemical, not biomechanical" but that works, too

"What's your claim?" - Ben Gravy
"Your best work is the work you're excited about" - Rick Rubin
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Re: Muscle Fatigue or Muscle Weakness? [r0wdiggity] [ In reply to ]
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From my own experience and assuming you used to row (rowdiggity username), I would guess your problem is that your lactate clearance within the working muscle fibres is poor, and instead you are very good at shuttling it out and converting it to glucose via your liver and other muscle fibres (even in your arms!). Stochastic efforts work fine: muscles churn out the lactate, then in the rest it gets cleared and pH resets for the next interval. But in a longer effort you lack fibres that are capable of using their own lactate and holding out, so they blow.
Or something like that. Just got to do some regular tempo work - and accept that your threshold is lower than you think. I've learned HIIT makes you great at intervals but doesn't improve your "FTP" (cringe) in the long term.
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Re: Muscle Fatigue or Muscle Weakness? [r0wdiggity] [ In reply to ]
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Yes, but very short intervals with enough recovery. Like 15" with 30-45" recovery. That works for me.
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Re: Muscle Fatigue or Muscle Weakness? [emceemanners] [ In reply to ]
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Ok that makes sense, I guess for awhile I have been avoiding the “grey zone” but it may be exactly what I need.
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Re: Muscle Fatigue or Muscle Weakness? [r0wdiggity] [ In reply to ]
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but what did you do the 3-4 days prior? accumulated fatigue or just not recovered?
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Re: Muscle Fatigue or Muscle Weakness? [Twilkas] [ In reply to ]
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could be,
Monday Long Easy Run
Tuesday Vo2 Max on the bike
Wednesday Recovery Ride
Thursday Vo2 max track intervals
Friday Tempo Ride

Saturday and Sunday are off or easy
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