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Home > Forum > Triathlon Forum > Training Plan, Coached, Do it yourself

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Training Plan, Coached, Do it yourself
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stevie g
Jun 27, 23 22:22
Post #1 of 9 (1430 views)
There are three threads about plans that are not getting much love. There is not really a wrong way to train, in that if you are out there at least ten hours a week to 15, something's going to improve compared to nothing. There are optimal ways to train.

Plan: Did Mark Allen and Endurance Nation

Performance: Ok low 11 first time IM and second tri 12 months.

Issue: Too much volume in individual sessions, eg 6500 metre swims based on the metrics you input at the start. Ended up fatigued and injured, but still raced ok. Do weights which leave you fried and impacted SBR training, but I looked great.

Overall: OK but needed tailoring.

Plan: endurance nation

Performance: Ok low 11 on harder course

Issue: Lot of prescriptive intensity, loved cranking the intensity, but after 4-6 weeks could not hit numbers and was not enjoying it

Overall: Ok idea but too prescriptive with zones which helps people like me set zones too high based on a best ever effort at 5 Km or TT.

Coached:

Is the way to go takes out all the guess work and errors and isn't too expensive. Performance sub 11 and PB in all others and mentally much happier. Make sure it is the right coach for you and you only know that by talking to them. One other coach we struggled to priortise and got a bit lost, that was a function of the athlete as much as the coach.

Do it your self:

Easy to say, not so easy to do. Found this works better for me at OD and sprints plus running and Cycling, probably a function of the lenght of event and you get more margin for error.
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Re: Training Plan, Coached, Do it yourself [stevie g] [ In reply to ]
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plaursen
Jun 28, 23 7:27
Post #2 of 9 (1329 views)
I think that's a nice lay of the land... only thing missing in your experience is use of the emerging AI platforms (Trainer Road, HumanGo, Athletica). Still aren't perfect but can improve on most of the issues you raise. Rapidly evolving now and will surpass everything else soon.
https://athletica.ai/
https://hiitscience.com/
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Re: Training Plan, Coached, Do it yourself [plaursen] [ In reply to ]
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trismitty
Jun 28, 23 9:27
Post #3 of 9 (1270 views)
plaursen wrote:
I think that's a nice lay of the land... only thing missing in your experience is use of the emerging AI platforms (Trainer Road, HumanGo, Athletica). Still aren't perfect but can improve on most of the issues you raise. Rapidly evolving now and will surpass everything else soon.


I've had great luck with Trainerroad using the low and mid-volume plans. I'm sure it's not as good as a personal coach, but it costs way less and continues to improve.
Human Person
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Re: Training Plan, Coached, Do it yourself [stevie g] [ In reply to ]
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kem
Jun 28, 23 10:02
Post #4 of 9 (1241 views)
I like the idea of an AI-based training program but am really skeptical that it can tailor things to the level I'd like based on the sort of data that is generally available for them. There's just so many variables and my goals are so ambiguous it seems like I'd need a coach, or just do it myself.

The one area where I'd like coaching is in swimming, and that's more of a form thing that I think you'd a human for. Maybe I'm wrong, but I doubt there's some AI system out there that takes video of your swimming and gives you useful, valid feedback about stroke form. Maybe too that would just come from doing certain kinds of drills repeatedly, but then that seems to miss the whole point of dynamic, feedback-based training programs.
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Re: Training Plan, Coached, Do it yourself [kem] [ In reply to ]
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plaursen
Jun 28, 23 11:11
Post #5 of 9 (1189 views)
kem wrote:
I like the idea of an AI-based training program but am really skeptical that it can tailor things to the level I'd like based on the sort of data that is generally available for them. There's just so many variables and my goals are so ambiguous it seems like I'd need a coach, or just do it myself

After being in this space for almost a decade, I agree entirely. There are so many contexts to try to solve for. There's an odd saying out: how do you eat an elephant — one bite at a time. So that's how we're tackling it. We can help the average person that is balanced across the disciplines that has a standard race goal (bike, run, triathlon), but for other contexts like the one you describe, we're not ready. That's not to say we won't be eventually however as many camera based systems are being developed as we speak. Asensei for example.
https://athletica.ai/
https://hiitscience.com/
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Re: Training Plan, Coached, Do it yourself [plaursen] [ In reply to ]
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curtish26
Jun 28, 23 11:13
Post #6 of 9 (1188 views)
My experience was
1) self coached 3 years
2) coached 1 year
3) self coached 4 years
4) Used TrainerRoads and TriDot AI programs

My thoughts....

I didn't really know what I was doing when I was self coached. I knew I would be swimming for a certain amount of time, cycling for a certain amount of time, and running for a certain amount of time and I broke up my available training hours accordingly. I got in great shape but didn't hit my potential in races.

With a coach for a year I learned how the pro's train. It wasn't too much different from what I had done on my own, but it did take most of the guess work out of things. The training wasn't the biggest value of having a coach though. The biggest value of having a coach was that he taught me how to race. Nailing a race plan is more important than having someone to plan workouts for you.

After having a coach for a year I was about plan my own training without any trouble. I like trying different things so I did the TriDot Pre-season program a few times just to see new workouts. I learned that you can not follow an AI plan blindly like you can follow a plan written by a Coach. The AI had quirks. If you can recognize the quirks and what causes them you can make adjustments and you are fine. If not then the AI is a risk and can through a training at you that you would be better off not doing.
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Re: Training Plan, Coached, Do it yourself [stevie g] [ In reply to ]
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Bryancd
Jun 28, 23 11:34
Post #7 of 9 (1165 views)
I have been coached since 2006. Two different coaches during that time. The only reason I made a change was my first coach left the industry. So I can't really opine about training plans or self directed. I would say I see people try and qualify the three approaches often and I think they often make an analytical mistake. If you are a beginner and start with a plan, you will have results. If you then move to a coach, you often will see better results. The instinct is to think that being coached is superior. But what folks don't consider is that consistent training over time will usually lead to better results, regardless of what methodology you pursue.
-Of course it's 'effing hard, it's IRONMAN!
Team ZOOT
ZOOT, QR, Garmin, HED Wheels, Zealios, FormSwim, Precision Hydration, Rudy Project
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Re: Training Plan, Coached, Do it yourself [kem] [ In reply to ]
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trismitty
Jun 28, 23 11:55
Post #8 of 9 (1128 views)
IMO the AI is pretty good on the cycling side of things. My FTP has continued to go up while training for 3 sports. Also as I've aged (and this is more of a structured training plug than AI) I've managed to stay injury-free. Someone else said it in this thread, but the factoring of recovery time is something that many will overlook. Most of these types of services do address that. The other side is prescribing a plan that varies the systems used. It's just too easy to go too hard or not hard enough without it (but usually too hard is the issue).

For swimming, I've been playing the Effortless Swimming 5 Day Catch challenge. Pretty good for $10. Brenton does respond to members in the group chats. Some have even uploaded videos.
Human Person
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Re: Training Plan, Coached, Do it yourself [Bryancd] [ In reply to ]
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stevie g
Jun 28, 23 15:47
Post #9 of 9 (1027 views)
Agree instinct to think being coached is better. For most that is a function of accountability, most people will probably do better with a coach as they are more likely to let things slide or wing it or their own.

AI is interesting. Assuming the smarts are properly trained then it should deliver optimal training plans.

After many years of trying it all and making many mistakes, riding 6 days a week, running 6 days a week and swimming three times a week gets you most of the way there.

Throw in a 5 k park run, on find a hill run up and down it for 60-90 secs at max effort and a mid week bike crit, and one group hammer fest and the intensity seems to be taken care of.
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