Bike or run?

Hah, that would be a stacked week of only 2 hour runs if so. Clearly it's bike.

Bike

What is your time goal? Have you rode a 50 before?
Is there any possibility for a 3 or 4 hour ride or do you only have 2 hours available 5x per week?

no good: days off shouldn't be back to back, and one endurance ride should be longer than 3 hours

I’m not a coach but have done a couple recent sub 2 hour 50 mile TT’s while training for triathlon. I generally use miles and not time.
1. Endurance ride easy/steady alternate easy terrain with hilly routes. At least 60 miles probably up to 80.
2. 40 or 50 miles either blocks of work at the powers/intensity you are aiming for or tempo (slightly easier then race pace) so warm up then say 30 or 40 miles.
3. 30 miles with maybe 6-8 x 5 mins above race effort.
4. Short session with good warm up and maybe 8-10 short but very hard efforts and lots recovery.
5 Easy ride maybe only 10-20 miles.

I’m late 50’s so if you are younger you could probably absorb a bit more training.

In addition I’d be swimming 8-10k and running 15-20 miles.

Hope that helps.

Goal is sub 2 hours

Yes I can do longer rides

I have plenty of time available

I was surprised how much endurance riding I did when training for a 40k TT. I imagine a 50mi is more.

I don’t know your training background (or event goals), but if it were me, I would:
- add a weekend ride of 3-4hrs at high endurance pace. And since you said you have plenty of time, add an hour of endurance to one of your rides, and then drop an hour on one of your other rides.
- do the tempo day right after the long endurance. Maybe start w 30 mins of tempo and add 20-30 mins each week of your “block”. Working up to 90 mins straight
- make Monday an easy recovery ride
- when you’re doing vo2, reduce to 60-90 mins (but I would be doing more tempo 5 months out vs vo2). And probably on Thursday so your hard days are spread out

I’d do something like this for 3 weeks, then do an easy week… then repeat the cycle

I’ve a buddy who is an ultra runner that does exactly this. He runs a half marathon for every session in about 2 hrs

what kind of wattage do you think you need for your goal and what % of threshold does that represent ?

Sorry for the late reply just saw your post

I averaged 23.7 mph for 56 miles on 209 watts earlier this year when Threshold was approx 256 while seated on trainer

Not sure if H3 trainer wattage is equal to road Power Tap G3



Threshold is now 280 while seated on the trainer
So my estimate is I could do 82% of that while in aero position = 229

Courses is flatter than the 23.7 mph average course

So my GUESS would be wattage needed would be approx 240?

If So and going by .82 from a seated trainer FTP would need to be approx 295?

Sound about right?

You need 24.5mph. 240w sounds like a lot for that.
Based on you 23.7mph on 209, you probably need 229, and that could be optimized

Back of the napkin calculations that would need to be properly flushed out.

WOW

That sounds great

Thank you for taking the time to post

I’m pretty sure I can do that wattage

24.5 mph doesn’t sound like that gets sub 2 hour 50 miles. Am I missing something maybe

Sorry I was short on coffee in me. Of course, you need 25mph. But still doable on 229, you just need a few less CDA points.

80kg, 229watts, .004CRR, .23 CDA in 1.18 air density should do it

same parameters that 23.7 on 209watts is close to .245, <pink> but if you stuff a bunch of bottles you're good for 22watts </pink>

very rough calcs with caffeine that has worn off.

Lol re coffee and no coffee

I really am glad you posted

Thank you again

Interesting sequencing - you do some endurance workouts fresh, but both intense days straight after endurance days. Must be good for intensity control but harder to fuel?

Some low hanging fruit:
-Saturday/Sunday get out there and ride
-Drop the Vo2max in favor of more threshold work
-Maybe add in a 3rd threshold workout if your body tolerates two of them well

A 2h TT is going to be sitting at LT2 for 90min and then working slowly above for the last bit. FTP (actual 60min power, not a ramp or 20min) will be a good predictor of where you need to be, but I wouldn't focus on raising FTP, I'd focus on raising 2h power (well duh). The threshold workout at some point need to push into the territory of 2h total work at 2h power (maybe 6x20min or 4x30min). In reality it's not such a tough event that you can't do one or two practice runs on a trainer (or if you have access to the course).

There's little reason to do weekly VO2max work for this event. Yes, it will still make you faster, but it also disproportionately fatigues without the specific impetus that threshold/sweetspot/LT2 work provides. It can be helpful to throw them in every 2nd or 3rd week to remind your body what it is to really go hard.

I changed the 2 days in a row and split them up

As for fueling the Saturday app has been a game changer for me

Workouts are markedly easier after I started using that app

Great info!

Thank you

I dropped the VO2 workouts

Added threshold

Thank you again

Do you happen to have a lactate meter? It's not necessary but really does simplify things. You could probably do 4/10hrs at LT2, but if you tried to do that at (what most people consider) FTP it wouldn't end well. If you have one, it's almost as simple as figuring out how to schedule as much LT2 work as possible.

If no lactate meter, how are you calculating FTP/Sweetspot/endurance zones? If really trying to maximize a specific output then these numbers become more important. (No idea if this is true, but I've thought one of the reasons most stock training plans have such varied workouts is because people estimate their FTP+/-40watts (actually just +) so you cant really target anything)

On the other hand, you know your goal is 2h, it doesn't take more than one test ride to figure out the watts you need to hold. Training to that number specifically would probably get you across the goal line but maybe not hit a home run.

I don’t have a lactate meter

FTP is from trainer road. If jr really isn’t 280 I’m done with that.

But as you say it’s best to know what it actually is to be in the zone you ‘think’ you are in

I recently did
6x20 mins at 253 with 5 min rest between each.

not sure if that helps with seeing if FTP is accurate or not

That 6x20 backs up the FTP number pretty well, as long as it wasn't something crazy like 15mim rest between reps. Def a lot closer than some that I've seen.

If you can hold 6x253 in the aero skis as an offhand effort you'll be in good shape to hold a similar NP on race day after peaking and excitement.

A nice training progression could be 5x20, 6x20, 7x20 over 3 weeks trying to bump up the watts every cycle.