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Mission Swimpossible
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Hope you like the title... anyway

Essentially I want to get better at the swim but i always seem to find programs / tutorials / workouts that include half a dozen different drills each workout or have me focusing on other stuff the next session before i have spent much time working on the previous aspect. Ideally I'd like to spent a month working on position, then a month on breathing, then propulsion etc focus on 1-2 drills that i can really use to perfect technical aspects, rather than going to the pool and wasting time trying to make sure i have done the 4th of 5 different drills correctly which is what currently seems to happen.

With that in mind are there some very simple drills which i could just keep repeating week in week out to hone the major aspects of a good freestyle swim (2 drills to help with position, 2 drills to help with breathing etc)?

Video attached of me at a hotel pool a few of weeks ago, some things i think i need to correct just from watching back
  • Head position looks to be too 'up' towards end of pool, therefore when i breathe most of my head is out of the water
  • My right elbow seems to sink lower than my wrist and finger on the catch/pull phase a lot more than my left arm, could this basically mean around 50% of my strokes are less effective?
  • I am kicking in the videos yet on the above water shot you barely see a splash, sinking legs and terrible body position i guess



My stats
100m easy in the pool would be around 2:05-2:10
100 m all out might at best be a 1:45
Best 70.3 swim = 39mins
Typical 70.3 swim = 42-44mins

If it helps with regards to fitness not being an issue, my half marathon time is 1:20:30 (not in a tri though) and my FTP is 290 @ 73kg so i think its all just technique thats letting me down

Thanks for any help
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Re: Mission Swimpossible [elecious] [ In reply to ]
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Simplest advice is time and frequency.
Are you swimming at least 3/4x a week. For how long? And how long are you spending on the wall.

Also focusing on a billion things at once won't help. Sometimes fixing 1 root problem could improve multiple things

Tower 26 provides a ton of volume and instruction and seldom any drills. Helped me improve a lot.

I just started on Dave Luscan's swim plan. He's on here and a bike fitter. Geared toward teaching you a framework to swim well.

https://www.trainingpeaks.com/...estyle#trainingplans

IG - @ryanppax
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Re: Mission Swimpossible [Ryanppax] [ In reply to ]
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My $0.02 if you genuinely want to improve your swim, then you should focus on that with little to no run or bike. Sacrifice 6 months and just swim. Join a masters squad, swim open water races, get a video analysis done, swim 6 times+ a week etc Swimming 2km, 3 times a week won't do much.
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Re: Mission Swimpossible [elecious] [ In reply to ]
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elecious,
Here's my preface: I'm a USAT Level III Coach. I've been teaching adults to swim freestyle efficently and fast for open water for over 20 years and have also lead coaching education for USAT and other organizations (a performance masters program, Total Immersion weekend workshop director, and others). What I do in the swim world is super narrow but I'm pretty good at it and I have a lot of experience. I hope you'll follow these steps.

I want you to think about swimming in just two catagories:
1) reducing drag
2) creating propulsion

Reducing drag is job one - afterall water is ~800 times thicker than air so if we're gonna talk about reducing drag in triathlon it should be a discussion in the water long before it's on the bike. I'd like you to get a proper set of swim trunks - you might be happier in a "jammer" (think bike short sans pad) than a brief. You don't have to go as far as shaving your body but if we're gonna chase the feeling "slippery" let's not have that feeling polluted by baggy shorts and a top. Body drag is job one and to get level (you're not level) you need to do 3 things:
1) your head needs a bit deeper in the water (water line should bisect the crown of your head and the water line is catching you closer to your hair line). Look straight down at the bottom of the pool.
2) your left arm needs to enter a bit steeper 'n deeper (right arm has the proper trajectory)
3) you need a wee bit more pressure on your collar bones (lungs are full of gas, they float, if you press on the upper part the lower part will come up.
Basically what we're doing here with you is a kin to what kids do on a seesaw: when something goes down on one end (head, deeper left arm, upper torso) something goes up on the other end (hips, legs, feet)

So, skill #1 is Level Body and you acheive that via the above.

Skill #2 is full extension - when you enter your hand and extend forward you've got to get it all: lock out the elbow, stretch the shoulder, roll up a touch with your whole body - yearn for length!

If you can get level and add full extension (those are the two prioritized skills you need - there are more but those are the priorities) it should drop you down to an easy 100 of 1:50ish and ignore the all out 'cause we're not there yet.

Also, keep running and cycling your ass off to stay fit, but your swim practice should be alone, easy, and mindful. Do a single 25 on level body - complete rest - then a single 25 on reach-n-roll - complete rest - then back to level body- rest- reach 'n roll, etc. etc. If you can stay mentally focused on this you'll likely get those new habits to stick in muscle memory in 2-3 weeks (4 session a week for 45-55min). After you take ownership of those then you can start to chase the other pieces you need but not untill these two are permenant.

Ian

Ian Murray
http://www.TriathlonTrainingSeries.com
I like the pursuit of mastery
Twitter - @TriCoachIan
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Re: Mission Swimpossible [elecious] [ In reply to ]
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Both of your arms are really far away from your body, and there is little bend in your elbow. Spend some money on a few hours of 1 on 1 coaching.
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Re: Mission Swimpossible [zedzded] [ In reply to ]
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zedzded wrote:
My $0.02 if you genuinely want to improve your swim, then you should focus on that with little to no run or bike. Sacrifice 6 months and just swim. Join a masters squad, swim open water races, get a video analysis done, swim 6 times+ a week etc Swimming 2km, 3 times a week won't do much.


+1 It doesn't look like you're getting a lot of "oomph" into your stroke, i.e., you're not getting a lot of power into each stroke. This is where "swim fitness" differs greatly from B and R fitness: you have to be able to PULL HARD to actually go even semi-fast. Your 1:20 half mary means very little in the pool if you can't get POWER into each stroke. This is why Zed's advice is so spot on, b/c you really have to FOCUS on swimming hard for a few months before you'll start to get it, and if you're tired from the B and R, you are not likely to be able to grasp what it feels like to really move in the water. Your body position will automatically improve as you become stronger in the water.

Also, get rid of the baggy shorts and shirt. If you want to be "modest", get a pair of jammers or, if you want to look like a "real swimmer", get a pair of briefs aka "Speedos". You'll be surprised at how much less drag you'll have. :)


"Anyone can be who they want to be IF they have the HUNGER and the DRIVE."
Last edited by: ericmulk: Jun 26, 23 20:01
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Re: Mission Swimpossible [elecious] [ In reply to ]
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No offence, but that is the strangest kick I've ever seen!! Def do some kick drills.

Regarding programmes, Effortless Swimming's membership has an "8 week faster freestyle" programme, it breaks it down into different "topics" each with 2 or 3 drills. You are supposed to spend a week on each, but no reason you couldn't spend a month (or however long you need) on each section. You can also send in videos to Brenton every month for analysis. https://effortlessswimming.com/


  • Week 1 - Relaxation and Breathing
  • Week 2 - Posture, Head Position and Kick (& Attitude!)
  • Week 3 - Balance, Alignment & Hand Position
  • Week 4 - Rotation, Recovery And Entry
  • Week 5 - The Catch
  • Week 6 - Power Diamond
  • Week 7 - Kick Timing & Type (And The Serape Effect)
  • Week 8 - Stroke Rate

Last edited by: Island: Jun 27, 23 6:56
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Re: Mission Swimpossible [elecious] [ In reply to ]
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Wow, so many things to cover. That is an interesting hotel. Why are you wearing so many clothing items in the water? Because those clothes are significantly slowing you down, which makes your technique worse.

For most swimmers, doing random swimming drills is often useless. But doing specific swimming drills for specific technique issues can be very helpful. Where do you live? Do you have access to some good swimming technique coaches? Getting some one on one help might be very smart.

The above water video you took is not so good for technique help. Above water video is very helpful, but you need to have someone walking (walking at your swimming speed) along the edge of the pool filming you above and from the side while you swim near (within 1-2 meters) and parallel to the edge of the pool. Can you do that?

But a few things from your video. When you breathe, you are lifting your head out of the water. Which makes your body sink. Don't do that. Instead, your body roll plus just rolling your head slightly (using your neck) should allow you to breathe without difficulty. Your kick is very wide. It should be narrow, your big toes should brush or nearly brush each other on almost every beat of your kick. Your pull has issues too.

How much do you swim each day/week/month? Have you ever used a kickboard (for kicking)? Have you ever used fins? What kind exactly? Have you ever used paddles and a pull buoy?

Advanced Aero TopTube Storage for Road, Gravel, & Tri...ZeroSlip & Direct-mount, made in the USA.
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Re: Mission Swimpossible [elecious] [ In reply to ]
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The initial technical issues that stick out are a little bit of a "cross-over" at the top of the stroke, body position (hips and feet are low, but could be improved with a different suit selection), pull pattern is a little wide and your core isn't very engaged.

The biggest issue you are dealing with is you aren't swimming enough. You need specific fitness to moving in the water. Based on your half marathon PR, you should easily be swimming sub 1:30/100m. When you ran your half-marathon PR did you do a lot of "drill work?" There is no drilling your way to faster swimming. Drills can help when done properly and targeted at a specific issue in the stroke (most triathletes have no clue how to do a drill correctly and often use them to address issues they don't have in their stroke), but you need fitness.

Generally speaking there are two ways to get faster and more efficient in swimming. You can either do a lot of volume (60,000m plus) for years or you can swim with a lot of intensity (about half the volume) at or above race pace. In either case, you need to focus on executing the best possible movement while swimming at the pace you want to go or faster. Technique and fitness can't be separated out from each other.

Swim fast and consistent with a lot of focus and you'll improve. Build up to 15-20k a week consistently (4-5x a week) for a few months and if you still aren't improving, then there's an issue. But until you've done that, you aren't going to improve by your primary focus being drill work.

I hope this helps,

Tim

http://www.magnoliamasters.com
http://www.snappingtortuga.com
http://www.swimeasyspeed.com
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Re: Mission Swimpossible [elecious] [ In reply to ]
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Wow, thanks for all the replies everyone, very useful to read a lot of this ๐Ÿ‘ some general extra information in reply to a few

  • The videos were taken on holiday and only because i had an empty pool and my GoPro around so thought it might be worth seeing what my swim looks like.
  • Regarding the clothing ๐Ÿ˜‚ I despise being in the sun so wear the top to reduce exposure to it as much as possible and i never wear it down the pool, always wear jammers as well so clothing isn't an issue in general
  • At the moment I only swim twice a week ๐Ÿ˜‘, one pool session and one outdoor swim of 1500m - 2000m at a lake
  • My kick is so bad that i actually move backwards when i do it ๐Ÿ˜ฎ , and that isn't an exaggeration, if i try to kick a 25m length i either end up not moving forward at all or actually moving backwards


Specific technical notes that look like issues for me from what you have all said
  • My head position when breathing
  • Little power in the pull, arms too wide and left enters differently to the right
  • Terrible kick
  • Weak core


How i plan to improve, and it seems quite simple really when written down ๐Ÿ˜‚
  • Do 4 swims a week instead of 2, just swim more
  • Find a training plan and do it
  • Focus on one aspect at a time for a good amount of time, maybe a month on breathing, then posture then rotation etc


I actually have a triathlon this weekend with a 1000m swim so will be a good indicator of current ability and give me a time to beat at some point. There is a second race as part of this triathlon in 6 weeks so i could really focus on the swim in between and see what happens, obviously wouldn't expect massive improvements but would be interesting to see what happens.
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Re: Mission Swimpossible [elecious] [ In reply to ]
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With someone's help, try to take another video like l suggested, and post it here. Also, have you ever used a kickboard (for kicking)? Have you ever used fins? What kind exactly? Have you ever used paddles and a pull buoy? Which ones?

Advanced Aero TopTube Storage for Road, Gravel, & Tri...ZeroSlip & Direct-mount, made in the USA.
DarkSpeedWorks.com.....Reviews.....Insta.....Facebook

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Re: Mission Swimpossible [elecious] [ In reply to ]
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Get yourself some fins and a kick board. Here are some kick drills, vertical kick is a great one.


Last edited by: Island: Jun 30, 23 6:12
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Re: Mission Swimpossible [Island] [ In reply to ]
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Island wrote:
Get yourself some fins and a kick board. Here are some kick drills, vertical kick is a great one.


They left out my favorite, kicking on your back with arms in the streamline position. I alternate 400 yd/m with fins with 4 x 100 yd/m w/o the fins. Kicking on the back with fins has definitely improved my ankle flex and my kick speed both on the back and on the stomach. IIRC, the poster tallswimmer (Oly Trials finalist in the 200 IM in 2008) recommended the kicking on back with fins. I also do the vertical kicking, but usually just when the swim lanes are crowded. As tallswimmer would say, kick, kick, kick, and then kick some more. :)


"Anyone can be who they want to be IF they have the HUNGER and the DRIVE."
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Re: Mission Swimpossible [ericmulk] [ In reply to ]
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Kick is like medicine. All know you need to take it but tastes like crap
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Re: Mission Swimpossible [elecious] [ In reply to ]
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Love the title. I am a fan of fist drill. Half my yards this year have been fist drill trying to correct a too-high head, breathing overrotation, and wonky R pull. Fist drill has helped a ton. Also makes you kick harder to make up for lack of hand area.
Youโ€™re not insane to try to isolate one thing for a bit. That is what I am doing and it is working. Iโ€™m a decent swimmer - if I can get speed out of this, people w o my swim background are also likely to benefit

maybe she's born with it, maybe it's chlorine
If you're injured and need some sympathy, PM me and I'm very happy to write back.
disclaimer: PhD not MD
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Re: Mission Swimpossible [waverider101] [ In reply to ]
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waverider101 wrote:
Kick is like medicine. All know you need to take it but tastes like crap

I have gradually learned to enjoy kicking but full stroke swimming is still more fun. On a time basis, I kick about half of my workouts now.


"Anyone can be who they want to be IF they have the HUNGER and the DRIVE."
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Re: Mission Swimpossible [elecious] [ In reply to ]
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So update after this weekends race. Was meant to be a 1km swim but came up closer to 800m which was perfect for me ๐Ÿ˜‚ but because of that I'll use pace rather than time as a performance metric to compare with as I go along.

Managed the swim at 2:05/100m (around 50th percentile in this field), then 10th fastest bike and the fastest run on the day ๐Ÿ˜€, so you can see why I want to fix my swim

Since then (Sunday) I have been to the pool twice, signed up to the Effortless Swimming 5 day catch challenge and found some good videos from Skills N Talents YouTube for some dryland exercises I can do to help as well

Plan now
Swim 4 times per week (2 x drill sessions, 1 endurance swim, 1 set of intervals)
Make sure to do kicking drills in each drill session to stop kick being a hinderance
Dryland exercises 2 times per week
Core workout 2 times per week
Enter the 2nd round of this race in 6 weeks and see what happens

I will try to get someone to record my swimming again closer to the race to see what's changed, its awkward in the UK as you're not supposed to be filming at a pool for obvious reasons but maybe I can get permission or wait till others leave
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