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In defense of a trumper
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This guy should be able to fly whatever flags he wants. And the cops should leave him the f*ck alone.
https://apnews.com/...ca399f8fced506e9e2fd


(But the guy is ruining his gas mileage by flying so many damn flags.)

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Re: In defense of a trumper [DarkSpeedWorks] [ In reply to ]
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Nope, not coming to his defense. Pretty much every place I've lived have had similar ordinances about vulgar language publicly displayed on a vehicle.

Now if shit-for-brains wants to argue what may be vulgar to some is not vulgar to others, go for it. That's a reasonable argument. Otherwise he's just suing to say whatever the fuck he wants to say.

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The secret of a long life is you try not to shorten it.
-Nobody
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Re: In defense of a trumper [DarkSpeedWorks] [ In reply to ]
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I've not seen her in a few months now but around here there was some woman driving a big black truck of some kind flying two "Fuck Biden" flags at each corner at the back of the truck bed.

More power to her, she's just announcing to the world that she's an idiot.
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Re: In defense of a trumper [DarkSpeedWorks] [ In reply to ]
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DarkSpeedWorks wrote:
This guy should be able to fly whatever flags he wants. And the cops should leave him the f*ck alone.
https://apnews.com/...ca399f8fced506e9e2fd


(But the guy is ruining his gas mileage by flying so many damn flags.)

Same types when they see a rainbow flag:


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Re: In defense of a trumper [mck414] [ In reply to ]
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mck414 wrote:
Nope, not coming to his defense. Pretty much every place I've lived have had similar ordinances about vulgar language publicly displayed on a vehicle.

Now if shit-for-brains wants to argue what may be vulgar to some is not vulgar to others, go for it. That's a reasonable argument. Otherwise he's just suing to say whatever the fuck he wants to say.

I am not a constitutional scholar, but l am pretty sure the 1st amendment protects vulgar speech too, especially when it is just an individual's personal speech.

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Re: In defense of a trumper [DarkSpeedWorks] [ In reply to ]
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DarkSpeedWorks wrote:
mck414 wrote:
Nope, not coming to his defense. Pretty much every place I've lived have had similar ordinances about vulgar language publicly displayed on a vehicle.

Now if shit-for-brains wants to argue what may be vulgar to some is not vulgar to others, go for it. That's a reasonable argument. Otherwise he's just suing to say whatever the fuck he wants to say.


I am not a constitutional scholar, but l am pretty sure the 1st amendment protects vulgar speech too, especially when it is just an individual's personal speech.

Try to get a personalized license plate with something vulgar on it. See how far the 1st amendment rights you there.

Give it a shot. https://expresslane.dps.louisiana.gov/plate/plate2.aspx

--------------------------
The secret of a long life is you try not to shorten it.
-Nobody
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Re: In defense of a trumper [mck414] [ In reply to ]
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mck414 wrote:
DarkSpeedWorks wrote:
mck414 wrote:
Nope, not coming to his defense. Pretty much every place I've lived have had similar ordinances about vulgar language publicly displayed on a vehicle.

Now if shit-for-brains wants to argue what may be vulgar to some is not vulgar to others, go for it. That's a reasonable argument. Otherwise he's just suing to say whatever the fuck he wants to say.


I am not a constitutional scholar, but l am pretty sure the 1st amendment protects vulgar speech too, especially when it is just an individual's personal speech.

Try to get a personalized license plate with something vulgar on it. See how far the 1st amendment rights you there.

Give it a shot. https://expresslane.dps.louisiana.gov/plate/plate2.aspx

No, license plates are not protected speech.

But using offensive words to convey political messages is.
https://thecaselawyer.com/...01/protected-speech/

Advanced Aero TopTube Storage for Road, Gravel, & Tri...ZeroSlip & Direct-mount, made in the USA.
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Re: In defense of a trumper [mck414] [ In reply to ]
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mck414 wrote:
DarkSpeedWorks wrote:
mck414 wrote:
Nope, not coming to his defense. Pretty much every place I've lived have had similar ordinances about vulgar language publicly displayed on a vehicle.

Now if shit-for-brains wants to argue what may be vulgar to some is not vulgar to others, go for it. That's a reasonable argument. Otherwise he's just suing to say whatever the fuck he wants to say.


I am not a constitutional scholar, but l am pretty sure the 1st amendment protects vulgar speech too, especially when it is just an individual's personal speech.


Try to get a personalized license plate with something vulgar on it. See how far the 1st amendment rights you there.

Give it a shot. https://expresslane.dps.louisiana.gov/plate/plate2.aspx

Close:



----------------------------------
"Go yell at an M&M"
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Re: In defense of a trumper [DarkSpeedWorks] [ In reply to ]
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DarkSpeedWorks wrote:
mck414 wrote:
DarkSpeedWorks wrote:
mck414 wrote:
Nope, not coming to his defense. Pretty much every place I've lived have had similar ordinances about vulgar language publicly displayed on a vehicle.


Now if shit-for-brains wants to argue what may be vulgar to some is not vulgar to others, go for it. That's a reasonable argument. Otherwise he's just suing to say whatever the fuck he wants to say.


I am not a constitutional scholar, but l am pretty sure the 1st amendment protects vulgar speech too, especially when it is just an individual's personal speech.


Try to get a personalized license plate with something vulgar on it. See how far the 1st amendment rights you there.

Give it a shot. https://expresslane.dps.louisiana.gov/plate/plate2.aspx


No, license plates are not protected speech.

But using offensive words to convey political messages is.
https://thecaselawyer.com/...01/protected-speech/



Freedom of speech does not include the right:
  • To make or distribute obscene materials.
    Roth v. United States, 354 U.S. 476 (1957).

I'll admit I have not read Roth v. US, so I don't know what the court ruled as "obscene". And as I originally replied, I'd give credit if he was arguing what is or what is not vulgar. But to wrap it up as protected political speech, he's full of shit. He's not making a political statement with "Fuck Joe Biden". That's a personal opinion.

Last edited by: mck414: Jan 26, 23 6:46
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Re: In defense of a trumper [klehner] [ In reply to ]
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Nice, bet he got that through the DMV (New Jersey??) before Let's Go Brandon really blew up

--------------------------
The secret of a long life is you try not to shorten it.
-Nobody
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Re: In defense of a trumper [mck414] [ In reply to ]
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mck414 wrote:
I'll admit I have not read Roth v. US, so I don't know what the court ruled as "obscene". And as I originally replied, I'd give credit if he was arguing what is or what is not vulgar. But to wrap it up as protected political speech, he's full of shit. He's not making a political statement with "Fuck Joe Biden". That's a personal opinion.



From Cohen v. Californa, "FUCK THE DRAFT. STOP THE WAR." (worn on jacket) is protected.

That would seem to cover this guy as well, though Cohen's statement has a bit more political content, with an actual policy position.

Where the line is between "offensive" and "obscene," I don't know, but it's probably not "fuck."
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Re: In defense of a trumper [mck414] [ In reply to ]
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No, sir:

https://www.mtsu.edu/...5/cohen-v-california

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Re: In defense of a trumper [trail] [ In reply to ]
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trail wrote:
mck414 wrote:
I'll admit I have not read Roth v. US, so I don't know what the court ruled as "obscene". And as I originally replied, I'd give credit if he was arguing what is or what is not vulgar. But to wrap it up as protected political speech, he's full of shit. He's not making a political statement with "Fuck Joe Biden". That's a personal opinion.



From Cohen v. Californa, "FUCK THE DRAFT. STOP THE WAR." (worn on jacket) is protected.

That would seem to cover this guy as well, though Cohen's statement has a bit more political content, with an actual policy position.

Where the line is between "offensive" and "obscene," I don't know, but it's probably not "fuck."

And, attitudes toward swearing have changed quite a bit since Cohen. I had a case where the federal judge casually tossed out an F bomb in court.
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Re: In defense of a trumper [DarkSpeedWorks] [ In reply to ]
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DarkSpeedWorks wrote:
No, sir:

https://www.mtsu.edu/...5/cohen-v-california

Setting an assumed baseline here, the AP article doesn't explicitly say what the flow flags state, just vulgar insults towards Biden. Let's assume it's "Fuck Joe Biden" as that seems to be popular among some. From Cohen v. CA, Justice Harlan wrote

"He reasoned that Cohen’s display of profanity could not be classified as obscenity, because it was not “erotic.” He also determined that the language could not be considered fighting words — another unprotected form of expression — because it was not directed at a particular recipient. “No individual actually or likely to be present could reasonably have regarded the words on appellant’s jacket as a direct personal insult,” he wrote."
If my assumption is right, then the language is directed at a particular recipient, and I would assume not protected speech. From that same case, Justice Harlan also wrote, which is the crux of my argument
“[O]ne man’s vulgarity is another’s lyric” and “because government officials cannot make principled distinctions in this area that the Constitution leaves matters of taste and style so largely to the individual.”
Let the guy argue what is and is not vulgar all day long. Argue until he's out of breath that insulting someone not present is protected. But flying Fuck Joe Biden flags is an insult, I just cannot see it as political speech.

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The secret of a long life is you try not to shorten it.
-Nobody
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Re: In defense of a trumper [mck414] [ In reply to ]
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So, you think that if the flags said, "eff the democrats", would that be protected speech?

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Re: In defense of a trumper [ike] [ In reply to ]
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ike wrote:
trail wrote:
mck414 wrote:

I'll admit I have not read Roth v. US, so I don't know what the court ruled as "obscene". And as I originally replied, I'd give credit if he was arguing what is or what is not vulgar. But to wrap it up as protected political speech, he's full of shit. He's not making a political statement with "Fuck Joe Biden". That's a personal opinion.





From Cohen v. Californa, "FUCK THE DRAFT. STOP THE WAR." (worn on jacket) is protected.

That would seem to cover this guy as well, though Cohen's statement has a bit more political content, with an actual policy position.

Where the line is between "offensive" and "obscene," I don't know, but it's probably not "fuck."


And, attitudes toward swearing have changed quite a bit since Cohen. I had a case where the federal judge casually tossed out an F bomb in court.

My students, and kids and their friends are much more open about cursing than when I was young. Sure you might have heard a casual damn or shit back then but not fuck. Now fuck seems fairly routine.
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Re: In defense of a trumper [mck414] [ In reply to ]
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OK, looks like there is some precedent. I'll stand down that Fuck Joe Biden is not protected speech.

https://www.thefire.org/...free-fly-another-day

Lady flew flags all over her property and was ordered to take them down, she sued and won.

--------------------------
The secret of a long life is you try not to shorten it.
-Nobody
Last edited by: mck414: Jan 26, 23 7:35
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Re: In defense of a trumper [DarkSpeedWorks] [ In reply to ]
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DarkSpeedWorks wrote:
So, you think that if the flags said, "eff the democrats", would that be protected speech?

My opinion only, no, not protected. But my opinion and $1.50 will get you a Coke out of the machine.

Want to make a political statement using profanity, sure, just include your position. Maybe I don't like your bike products, so I march around with Fuck DSW flags. That statement can be interpreted many different ways, maybe you cheated with my wife or ran over my dog. But if I were to fly a flag stating Fuck DSW, his products are shit, then I'm making a statement.


I like your stuff by the way, have Speedpacks on both bikes :-).

--------------------------
The secret of a long life is you try not to shorten it.
-Nobody
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Re: In defense of a trumper [mck414] [ In reply to ]
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mck414 wrote:
OK, looks like there is some precedent. I'll stand down that Fuck Joe Biden is not protected speech.

https://www.thefire.org/...free-fly-another-day

Lady flew flags all over her property and was ordered to take them down, she sued and won.

A Court might distinguish banners on your own property on the ground that parents have some ability to avoid that area. By contrast, they can’t really shield their kids from a truck on a public road. I’m not saying the truck owner should lose — they’d likely win — but houses are different in a relevant way.
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Re: In defense of a trumper [mck414] [ In reply to ]
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mck414 wrote:
l like your stuff by the way, have Speedpacks on both bikes :-).


Thanks for the good words.

Don't get me wrong, l don't in any way agree with the guy's 'eff Joe Biden' sentiments, but l disagree greater with having govt authorities decide what is acceptable speech out of my mouth on the public town square (not fb, youtube, twitter, etc--those are private entities), or written on my personal bumperstickers, t-shirts, jackets, or flags.

I think the 1st amendment is kinda important.

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Last edited by: DarkSpeedWorks: Jan 26, 23 7:55
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Re: In defense of a trumper [mck414] [ In reply to ]
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mck414 wrote:
DarkSpeedWorks wrote:
mck414 wrote:
Nope, not coming to his defense. Pretty much every place I've lived have had similar ordinances about vulgar language publicly displayed on a vehicle.

Now if shit-for-brains wants to argue what may be vulgar to some is not vulgar to others, go for it. That's a reasonable argument. Otherwise he's just suing to say whatever the fuck he wants to say.


I am not a constitutional scholar, but l am pretty sure the 1st amendment protects vulgar speech too, especially when it is just an individual's personal speech.


Try to get a personalized license plate with something vulgar on it. See how far the 1st amendment rights you there.

Give it a shot. https://expresslane.dps.louisiana.gov/plate/plate2.aspx

A license plate isn't your personal property.

Slowguy

(insert pithy phrase here...)
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Re: In defense of a trumper [DarkSpeedWorks] [ In reply to ]
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Re: In defense of a trumper [DarkSpeedWorks] [ In reply to ]
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Much as I think he's a tool, the First Amendment protects his right to advertise that fact this way
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