Here is the flip side..

i thought those were both great videos. it's really something how much they seem to respect each other, how down-to-earth they both seem, and how truly game they are to humble themselves and be good sports. awesome stuff all around.

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https://lshtm.academia.edu/MikeCallaghan

http://howtobeswiss.blogspot.ch/

I don't think their is any vs. They seem pretty chummy.

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Suffer Well.

This was a very fun collab. We had a blast plan to do more in the future.

This was a very fun collab. We had a blast plan to do more in the future.


Talbot - well done!

Lionel and Phil are naturals as foils for one another and collaborators with stuff like this. They have both really leveraged the power of Social Media, and Video Content in particular, to their respective advantages.

I look forward to the next edition of the Lionel & Phil show!

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Steve Fleck @stevefleck | Blog

great to hear - just a sincere and wonderful atmosphere all around and it looked like everyone was having fun. also agree with steve that phil and lionel's personalities seem they complement one another well.

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https://lshtm.academia.edu/MikeCallaghan

http://howtobeswiss.blogspot.ch/

Gaimon, not gammon.


Really fun videos. I fell off watching any Phil stuff after a while where I was like "ok, been there watched that". But this was worth tuning in.

I liked how you did it. Well done.

Who was the 3rd guy

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Here you go..

great videos Talbot, really good viewing and you can feel that everyone was having fun on and off camera
Enjoyed that

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Tridad

Great Video Phil needs to do a sprint Tri!!

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All I Wanted Was A Pepsi, Just One Pepsi

Team Zoot, Team Zoot Mid-Atlantic

I've noticed huge difference in heart rates between Lionel and Phil. Isn't that crazy???

Lionel is a couple years younger, Phil is coming off of a recovery training block with almost no intensity, and we are all just physiologically different.

It's a good observation and part of the reason that trying to use "math" based on averages to determine your zones or max HR is illogical and most likely counter productive.

Lionel is a couple years younger, Phil is coming off of a recovery training block with almost no intensity, and we are all just physiologically different.

It's a good observation and part of the reason that trying to use "math" based on averages to determine your zones or max HR is illogical and most likely counter productive. ///

Well you eventually got to the right answer, we all just have different heart rate zones that are individual to us. Of course some folks overlap, or are even the same, but the variance is huge, and as I have pointed out for 40 years(and you did here)using static math zones is really just stupid. Now that is not to say you cannot use HR effectively, it is actually still the best tool one can use(with others to supplement). But it only works if you have a huge and complete data base of yourself, and how your HR reacts to different paces, weather, fatigue, etc..

What I found really interesting, but always knew this, was the power difference's while Phil was sucking wheel. There are many on here that like to promote that there is a 20 to 30 watt savings in the legal triathlon draft zones(8 to 12 meters) and I have always argued that is just not the case. So here you have a guy who is a world class wheel sucker(pro bike racer), and he is getting between 20 to 30 watts on the very rubber of Lionel, and often in the echelon on the crosswinds. Does anyone here imagine that if he backed off to 10/12 meters, that he would be getting anywhere the same? My guess is that if you could even measure it accurately, he would be getting 1 or 2 watts that far back. OF course conditions play a part, but to have the ultimate advantage drafting off of one guy only 20 to 30 watts, then its not rocket science to see that moving that way, way back is going to be a hell of a lot less.

I do maintain however that there is another distance advantage to riding well behind someone, and that is pacing. I believe if one had the sophistivation to measure HR in this realm, you would find lower HR's just because of the mental energy that is saved by not having to rely solely on yourself for pacing...

They talked about it in the video, that it was super windy and there wasn't really any draft.

But, I also think at 30 mph on a still day it's palpable at 10 or 12 meters sometimes. Especially a whole line of riders evenly spaced.

They talked about it in the video, that it was super windy and there wasn't really any draft. //

Ya, I heard that, and of course they don't mean "any" draft. Anyone who has ever bike raced knows that there is "always" a draft, no matter the wind. Now with a hard crosswind it gets tricky if you cannot move to the side, but these two had the whole road, and I did see Phil echeloning Lionel. What they really mean is it is not the ideal draft type wind, so a bit harder than it could be under ideal conditions.


It was kind of like 90% of the Kona course, the one where everyone is complaining about those 12m wheel suckers... (-;

One is riding a TT bike in full race setup with high profile front wheel and disk rear. The other is on a regular road bike.

They also obviously have different weights.

You cannot compare their wattages.

You cannot compare absolute heart rates between two individuals. It would have been interesting to see their respective heart rate compared to HR max.

We're getting slightly off topic. I raced road bikes and I assumed it was swirling or gusting from one side, so Phil was having to move around a lot. They had looked at the power numbers, so of course they were aware of how much he had benefitted.

Seems folks get pretty opinionated by all the draft debate and I guess it's fair enough that Lionel has been at the front of this debate that it gets brought up in his threads.

Perhaps the new Road Ranger system gets adopted and at least whatever the rule is it gets uniformly observed by athletes.